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Thread: Everything Greg Monroe

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic Veteran Hotshot's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't know, Skal played ok in his rookie year, but still at least looked physically soft.

    I'm worried he just coasts on the talent he has. There was definitely playing time up for grabs in Sacto and he didn't grab it.
    In defense of all Sac's drafted players: its either management is doing a bad job drafting talented players or developing them and it looks to me its likely both.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    In defense of all Sac's drafted players: its either management is doing a bad job drafting talented players or developing them and it looks to me its likely both.
    Well I'm inclined to say it's more of an identifying talent problem than developing it. To be in the lottery for over a decade and have barely anything to show for it is pretty crazy.

    *I mean, they got Cousins, who's a massive talent but also a mixed bag with his own issues on the court. Evans won rookie of the year but never really made the leap and is a fringe starter or great 6th man. Thomas had a great stay in Boston, but has been a 6th man type scorer most of his career (and he was the 60th pick). They've been in the lottery since 2007, and they've struck out most of the time.

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    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Aug 9th, 2018 at 12:16 AM.

  3. #123
    Super Moderator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well I'm inclined to say it's more of an identifying talent problem than developing it. To be in the lottery for over a decade and have barely anything to show for it is pretty crazy.

    *I mean, they got Cousins, who's a massive talent but also a mixed bag with his own issues on the court. Evans won rookie of the year but never really made the leap and is a fringe starter or great 6th man. Thomas had a great stay in Boston, but has been a 6th man type scorer most of his career (and he was the 60th pick). They've been in the lottery since 2007, and they've struck out most of the time.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    I agree. They've drafted mostly duds. If the problem was just development then one would think more of these guys would have made it elsewhere. Also, development isn't just the responsibility of the team. All really good players are gym rats 24/7 365.

    Good NBA players take ownership of their careers.

    No doubt the Spurs system is a lot better than the Kings system but I think the Spurs have one luxury of drafting late that earlier teams do not: zero pressure, so they can draft guys who fit rather than draft the 'best talent available'. So these players are thrusted into winning situations. Spurs rookies typically are playing with accomplished vets as well and that helps but make no mistake, if they don't take ownership of their careers they won't last long either.
    Last edited by Apollo; Fri Aug 10th, 2018 at 06:29 AM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I agree. They've drafted mostly duds. If the problem was just development then one would think more of these guys would have made it elsewhere. Also, development isn't just the responsibility of the team. All really good players are gym rats 24/7 365.

    Good NBA players take ownership of their careers.

    No doubt the Spurs system is a lot better than the Kings system but I think the Spurs have one luxury of drafting late that earlier teams do not: zero pressure, so they can draft guys who fit rather than draft the 'best talent available'. So these players are thrusted into winning situations. Spurs rookies typically are playing with accomplished vets as well and that helps but make no mistake, if they don't take ownership of their careers they won't last long either.
    I would add that if you compare the Raptors drafts (last 3 seasons) with The Kings, it seems that there is character types in the evaluation along with analytics, size and fit that other teams including Sacramento do not care for as much. Two other franchises that do that to some degree are the Utah Jazz and San Antonio Spurs. Maybe that is the reason two small franchises out West who are not attractive locations then other big cities, were more competitive than 90% of the league in the last 20-30 years because they know what they are doing (in hiring & drafting process).

    Suffice to say Sacramento are really bad at everything.

  5. #125
    Raptors Republic Starter Mapko's Avatar
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    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    According to Boston fans, he was just awful on defense. Like so bad he could barely get any pt in the playoffs with a limited roster

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    What happened to Brad Stevens genius on D?
    Could not elevate him?
    Personally, I am not very worried about his lack on D (nor shotblocking) with 2nd unit (or even first for that matter as an injury sub).
    Our unit is very solid 1on 1 on D, so hopefully not much need for help or shot blocking.
    As for Monroe guarding other teams backup centers: Is there somebody that good that he will expose him?
    Not to mention, he has solid post moves (& passing) to expose his man. Its a 2 way street.
    Very pleased with addition (esp at that price).

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I agree. They've drafted mostly duds. If the problem was just development then one would think more of these guys would have made it elsewhere. Also, development isn't just the responsibility of the team. All really good players are gym rats 24/7 365.

    Good NBA players take ownership of their careers.

    No doubt the Spurs system is a lot better than the Kings system but I think the Spurs have one luxury of drafting late that earlier teams do not: zero pressure, so they can draft guys who fit rather than draft the 'best talent available'. So these players are thrusted into winning situations. Spurs rookies typically are playing with accomplished vets as well and that helps but make no mistake, if they don't take ownership of their careers they won't last long either.
    Effort & hard work tend to "rub off"

  7. #127
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    It's not so long ago a centre of Monroe's calibre would have been looked at as one of the best we've ever had.

    Also not that long ago he was playing the power forward position, wild.

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    Raptors Republic Starter inthepaint's Avatar
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    Yup. He's got a broad court vision. Maybe not really why he was brought in for but dude can pass...

    Last edited by inthepaint; Sun Aug 12th, 2018 at 08:35 PM.

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    Quote inthepaint wrote: View Post
    Yup. He's got a broad court vision. Maybe not really was he was brought in for but dude can pass...

    So he was playing PF in these sequences? Didn't know that. Anybody have a timeline for these highlights? How long has he been out of the Pistons? He shows some high level skills with that big to big passing.

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    Raptors Republic Starter inthepaint's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    So he was playing PF in these sequences? Didn't know that. Anybody have a timeline for these highlights? How long has he been out of the Pistons? He shows some high level skills with that big to big passing.
    Those highlights are from 2014 (he left the Pistons in 2015). Not the most recent stuff from him, but passing and court vision is something that tends to stay the same or improve with time (unlike some other more physical elements in the game).

    It's also highly dependant on coaching and how he's utilized within a 5-man unit (which is nice here because Nurse seems to be a coach that has a knack for utilizing bigs as playmaking beacons)

  12. #131
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    Quote inthepaint wrote: View Post
    Those highlights are from 2014 (he left the Pistons in 2015). Not the most recent stuff from him, but passing and court vision is something that tends to stay the same or improve with time (unlike some other more physical elements in the game).

    It's also highly dependant on coaching and how he's utilized within a 5-man unit (which is nice here because Nurse seems to be a coach that has a knack for utilizing bigs as playmaking beacons)
    I wonder how well he has been used in his most recent teams? You are right about passing skills and court vision...steady improvement as long as injuries don't affect you and age doesn't slow that stuff down. This guy could be a big asset on the second unit or even subbing in for JV on the first unit. I am excited to see how he performs with the talent he will be surrounded with on the Raptors. Could be a real sset.

  13. #132
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well I'm inclined to say it's more of an identifying talent problem than developing it. To be in the lottery for over a decade and have barely anything to show for it is pretty crazy.

    *I mean, they got Cousins, who's a massive talent but also a mixed bag with his own issues on the court. Evans won rookie of the year but never really made the leap and is a fringe starter or great 6th man. Thomas had a great stay in Boston, but has been a 6th man type scorer most of his career (and he was the 60th pick). They've been in the lottery since 2007, and they've struck out most of the time.
    Just look at their pick history for the last ten years.

    2009: Tyreke Evans (#4), Omri Casspi (#23). Evans was a garbage chucker for almost his entire career before he reinvented himself last year as a three-point scoring threat. Casspi is a perfectly okay NBA bench big.

    2010: Boogie (#5), Hassan Whiteside (#33). Boogie is Boogie. They dumped Whiteside in the D-League and mostly forgot about him until waiving him in 2012 - before his rookie contract was even fully up.

    2011: Jimmer Fredette (#10 - trading down from #7, which was Bismack Biyombo, for Fredette and John Salmons), Tyler Honeycutt (#35), IT (#60). Fredette was never encouraged (or required) to grow beyond his college gunner status and was basically coddled, and as a result was out of the league in four years - the Kings bought him out after three. Honeycutt was dumped in the D-League and forgotten about, and eventually went to Houston in the trade that brought Patrick Patterson to Sacramento. IT balled out to an extent very few players ever manage, was incredibly popular with the fans, and then Sacramento let him go to Phoenix in free agency (sign and trading for the rights to Alex Oriakhi, who was never anything in the NBA).

    2012: Thomas Robinson (#5), Orlando Johnson (#36). Robinson was basically never given anything more than backup minutes to Jason Thompson, who is basically a perfectly average replacement-level big. The Kings sold Johnson's draft rights to Indiana for cash, although they did eventually sign him to a couple of ten-days when the Pacers gave up on him.

    2013: Ben McLemore (#7). Was supposed to be the "surest thing" high-floor prospect in the 2013 draft. Definitely did not become that.

    2014: Nik Stauskas (#8). Was supposed to be the best pure shooter in the draft of 2014. Unfortunately, the Kings were apparently unable to do anything with him. They traded him to Philly in a "pay to get rid of him" trade only a year later, where he immediately and noticeably improved as a player.

    2015: Willie Cauley-Stein (#6), Isaiah Cousins (#59). The basic knock on WCS coming into the draft was that he was a freak athlete with great potential but who had to be taught fundamentals to apply that potential at an NBA level. Three years later and he's the Kings leader in WS/48 - at .92, which is basically "decent bench player" level. (So is his VORP, which is 1.2 - the definition of a decent bench player.)

    2016: Giorgios Papagiannis (#13), Skal Labissiere (#28) and the rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic, all of which was obtained for Marquess Chriss at #8. Now, Chriss has a great first year but last year he had a serious soph slump and it looks like it's a character problem, so good on the Kings for dodging that bullet. But they waived Papagiannis after less than two years, Skal isn't even a replacement-level player and Bogdan... might become a decent starter?

    2017: De'Aaron Fox (#5), Justin Jackson (#15), Harry Giles (#20), Frank Mason III (34). They're all rooks so it's too early to judge, but Fox and Jackson were mostly not very good, Mason looks to be an okay backup point guard and Giles has yet to play an NBA game (but looked good in Summer League this year).

    The trends here are fairly obvious. Sacramento gives up on players very, very fast, much faster than virtually any other NBA team, with an extensive track record of trading away or even waiving lottery picks before their rookie contract even gets to the options (Whiteside, Robinson, Fredette, Stauskas, Papagiannis). They don't appear to actively train rookies and seem to mostly be willing to let them sink or swim in the NBA on their own. They're simply crap at training players to shoot at an NBA level and don't appear to understand how to turn college-level shooters into NBA shooters. They don't train defense in any reasonable sense. Some of this is on the drafting, maybe, but I think it's mostly on the coaching (not that coaching stability in Sacramento has ever been a thing). Whiteside, Stauskas, Evans and even Robinson all played better after they left Sacramento.

    Like, imagine how little of what I said about about Sacramento applies to Masai's Raptors - or, for that matter, even Bryan Colangelo's Raptors. Good franchises nurture their players. Sacramento doesn't, and then trades them for spare parts.

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