Everything Training Camp 2018-2019

[white men can't jump]

Butler is not a top 5-8 player.

He is in the 10-20 range more likely. He is a great player, but not a significant upgrade on Lowry, and as others have mentioned he's a more awkward fit. He wasn't singlehandedly dragging an awful Minnesota team to success. They had a solid team with a couple of very talented young players and some solid (albeit unspectacular) pieces like Gibson, Crawford, Bjelica,.etc.

Butler basically only makes us significantly better if it is something like the Serge-centred deals fans have proposed.

Anything where Lowry goes out is a totally asinine proposal.

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[Chr1s1anL]

Oh I thought it was about being a distraction? Now it's talent over fit. But with Lowry he needs to fit in?

It is about the distraction but, im always going to want the better player.

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[KeonClark]

It is about the distraction but, im always going to want the better player.

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So you must love the demar trade

[Chr1s1anL]

So you must love the demar trade

It was a good trade.

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[A.I]

People really undervalue how good a leader/floor general Lowry is.

[KeonClark]

People really undervalue how good a leader/floor general Lowry is.

Thank you. I'm puttering along with way too many posts on the topic where this sums it up in 10 words

[DanH]

Butler is not a top 5-8 player.

He is in the 10-20 range more likely. He is a great player, but not a significant upgrade on Lowry, and as others have mentioned he's a more awkward fit. He wasn't singlehandedly dragging an awful Minnesota team to success. They had a solid team with a couple of very talented young players and some solid (albeit unspectacular) pieces like Gibson, Crawford, Bjelica,.etc.

Butler basically only makes us significantly better if it is something like the Serge-centred deals fans have proposed.

Anything where Lowry goes out is a totally asinine proposal.

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Jimmy ranked 4th in RPM last year. Lowry ranked 9th. The year before, Butler was 7th and Lowry 10th. The year before, Lowry was 7th while Butler was 18th. So both are top 10-ish players by impact, with Butler having an edge of late but only barely. Meanwhile, they posted almost identical production-based stats last year (.198 vs .194 WS/48, +5 vs +5.9 BPM) and similar stats the year before (.236 vs .216 WS/48, +6.9 vs +6.6 BPM).

Butler is likely a nominal upgrade over Lowry. But that nominal upgrade isn't worth the more difficult fit, the loss of assets, the chance of bolting next summer, and the risk to the locker room (which is certainly greater with Butler than with Lowry). All of those things would be worth it if we weren't sending out Lowry, as Butler would then represent a dramatic improvement to the team. As it is, it would be a limited improvement at best.

[S.R.]

Someone noted in one of these threads that Danny Green said on Sirius XM last night that Kyle has been a huge help to Kawhi already. So yeah... much ado about nothing.

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And he's not. Kawhi said in an interview on Sirius that Lowry has been "tremendous help" (his words). Helped him to understand the offense and generally has been communicating with Kawhi on where he wants the ball and etc.

Bah, facts! It's time for message board speculation and trade proposals!

The very idea of trading Lowry because of what has/hasn't happened between him and the media this week (during training camp!) is so laughable it's hard to know where to even start. I would put a full paycheque on the fact that this "issue" is not at all on Masai's radar. It's 50/50 whether if you asked him about it he would just laugh or look confused as to what you're trying to refer to as a "problem."

Hard to think of something that could matter less on the basketball court. Has nobody handed out locker room Gatorades since Jose left? OMG the team is in disarray! Trade FVV for not getting off his ass and being a team-first professional, he should be doing this!

[white men can't jump]

Jimmy ranked 4th in RPM last year. Lowry ranked 9th. The year before, Butler was 7th and Lowry 10th. The year before, Lowry was 7th while Butler was 18th. So both are top 10-ish players by impact, with Butler having an edge of late but only barely. Meanwhile, they posted almost identical production-based stats last year (.198 vs .194 WS/48, +5 vs +5.9 BPM) and similar stats the year before (.236 vs .216 WS/48, +6.9 vs +6.6 BPM).

Butler is likely a nominal upgrade over Lowry. But that nominal upgrade isn't worth the more difficult fit, the loss of assets, the chance of bolting next summer, and the risk to the locker room (which is certainly greater with Butler than with Lowry). All of those things would be worth it if we weren't sending out Lowry, as Butler would then represent a dramatic improvement to the team. As it is, it would be a limited improvement at best.

Ok but even that is just RPM. Not a perfect stat by any means.

No one would put either player above guys like LeBron, Harden, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, Davis, Giannis and probably Westbrook. That's 8 guys who are undeniably more talented and "better" players.

Both Butler and Lowry would be, at best, in the next tier of guys. I know we're not really disagreeing, I just think it's important to make the distinction between tiers. Lowry and Butler are in the same tier. Neither one is in Kawhi's tier. Lowry is a great fit and leader for our team. We don't know how Butler would mesh given how bitchy he's been recently. It is a flat out stupid risk to flip them for each other.

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[KeonClark]

When you show up to training camp and haven't checked any offseason news

Tristan Thompson: “We’re still 4-time Eastern Conference champions, so until you take us down from that, teams ain’t got much to say. Boston, Philly, they ain’t got much to say. Boston had homecourt Game 7 and lost. Philly, you guys almost got swept. Toronto - we know that story”

this is where I'd say Mr. Kardashian is dumber than a sack of hammers but hammers are a useful tool and dont deserve the comparison

[Maury]

Ok but even that is just RPM. Not a perfect stat by any means.

No one would put either player above guys like LeBron, Harden, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, Davis, Giannis and probably Westbrook. That's 8 guys who are undeniably more talented and "better" players.

Both Butler and Lowry would be, at best, in the next tier of guys. I know we're not really disagreeing, I just think it's important to make the distinction between tiers. Lowry and Butler are in the same tier. Neither one is in Kawhi's tier. Lowry is a great fit and leader for our team. We don't know how Butler would mesh given how bitchy he's been recently. It is a flat out stupid risk to flip them for each other.

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I would put Jimmy and Kyle ahead of Westbrook and Giannis (last year. He’ll probably pass them this year). Jimmy was playing really really well last year. Neither KAT or Wiggins contribute to winning at all really and Jimmy was leading them to a potential 55 wins before getting hurt.

[S.R.]

When you show up to training camp and haven't checked any offseason news

this is where I'd say Mr. Kardashian is dumber than a sack of hammers but hammers are a useful tool and don't deserve the comparison

This was hilarious. So was the fact that the entire subsequent discussion was about the Celtics and Sixers.

The Eastern Conference is in for a rude motherfucking surprise.

[KeonClark]

This was hilarious. So was the fact that the entire subsequent discussion was about the Celtics and Sixers.

The Eastern Conference is in for a rude motherfucking surprise.

In the united states we're an after thought. And playoff chokes will stick with us the entire time we're sitting in first, despite swapping our worst choker for a finals mvp.

Oh well

[Chr1s1anL]

Neither KAT or Wiggins contribute to winning at all really and Jimmy was leading them to a potential 55 wins before getting hurt.

In the better conference as well.

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[The Great One]

Butler is a more talented player. But hes in the Kawhi demar lane of top scorer. Lowry is a better #2 for this situation

1. Butler is a better player than Lowry. This is not even debatable.

2. It's all about the playoffs.

Who do you trust more in the playoffs? Butler or Lowry?