PRESEASON GAME 2: Toronto Raptors @ Utah Jazz - Oct 2nd, 9pm ET SN1

[Nilanka]

Siakam needs to learn to shoot at least somewhat respectably before he can make a big leap.

Not sure better playmaking will matter enough without that. It will help in transition, but won't matter as much in the halfcourt where without a shot guys will say off him a lot.

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I.e. in the playoffs.

[planetmars]

It's early but our prospects are not untouchable. If there's a trade for Butler man I hope Masai doesn't hesitate.

Yeah.. we need to stop overrating some of our prospects. If we can get Jimmy for 5 years (and not as a rental) I'm willing to give up an OG or Pascal for him.

[Nilanka]

Yeah.. we need to stop overrating some of our prospects. If we can get Jimmy for 5 years (and not as a rental) I'm willing to give up an OG or Pascal for him.

Problem is Butler has very little reason to commit long term before the summer of 2019.

[planetmars]

Problem is Butler has very little reason to commit long term before the summer of 2019.

The team that trades for Jimmy can offer him a 5 year, $190M max extension (and I suspect money is a driving force based on why he wants out of Minny). Minny offered him a 4 year, $100M deal to stick around after this year and he said no.

If Jimmy enters free agency and goes to a new team the most a team can give him is that 4 year/$100M max. So I suspect if Masai told Jimmy's agent that he'd give him that 5 year, $190M deal he would stick around.

But who knows if Masai would even want that contract on his books. He's got a potential Kawhi max contract to deal with as well.

[DanH]

The team that trades for Jimmy can offer him a 5 year, $190M max extension (and I suspect money is a driving force based on why he wants out of Minny). Minny offered him a 4 year, $100M deal to stick around after this year and he said no.

If Jimmy enters free agency and goes to a new team the most a team can give him is that 4 year/$100M max. So I suspect if Masai told Jimmy's agent that he'd give him that 5 year, $190M deal he would stick around.

But who knows if Masai would even want that contract on his books. He's got a potential Kawhi max contract to deal with as well.

The most a team can offer him in free agency is 4/140M or so, not 4/100M. The annual amount is only a little higher re-signing with Bird Rights, it's the 5th year that's the real difference. I suspect it would very much help with re-signing him, but it's far from a sure thing.

[planetmars]

The most a team can offer him in free agency is 4/140M or so, not 4/100M. The annual amount is only a little higher re-signing with Bird Rights, it's the 5th year that's the real difference. I suspect it would very much help with re-signing him, but it's far from a sure thing.

Thanks for the correction!

[white men can't jump]

Yeah.. we need to stop overrating some of our prospects. If we can get Jimmy for 5 years (and not as a rental) I'm willing to give up an OG or Pascal for him.

Willing to maybe give up Pascal depending on the configuration of the deal. Not willing to give up OG at all. OG may never be more than a 4th/5th option, but he's so good defensively and has the physical tools to play all 5 positions on that end. I can't give that up for a guy who requests a trade every year.

*Frankly would still not really want to give up anything good given Butler's age, possible fit and possibility he could bolt, while also taking Kawhi with him.

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[S.R.]

Poeltl was a mess in the playoffs last year. The guy needs at least 1 or 2 more years of development. Love Poeltl but Siakam is a better player.

Siakam has been a little erratic but he still finished with 9 boards (and with 13 in game 1, we can see that he's been tasked to grab as many boards as he can get his hands on). He finished with a respectable 4/8. Still can't shoot (although did get one 3 in), and his 4 turnovers were bad. But he's still learning how to initiate an offense. If he can develop that skill (and that's a tough one to learn) he'll be really good in this league.

If it takes all of preseason to help him with that development I don't see why it's a problem. Going into the season though I would like Fred or Delon to control the pace, and have Siakam initiate less and have him maybe only initiate a play one or twice a game at the max.

I think perhaps the expectations might have been too high coming into preseason for him. He's not going to be some MIP candidate or anything. He's no where near to being an all-star type player. But maybe one day he can become one. That ceiling is still there for the taking for him.


Norm on the other hand.. ugh. 4 more years right?

Siakam needs to learn to shoot at least somewhat respectably before he can make a big leap.

Not sure better playmaking will matter enough without that. It will help in transition, but won't matter as much in the halfcourt where without a shot guys will sag off him a lot.

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Shooting and/or defensive awareness are needed for him to crack the starting lineup. With a shot he could be the starting 4, with improved defensive awareness he could be the lone big in small ball lineups.

[Hotshot]

Willing to maybe give up Pascal depending on the configuration of the deal. Not willing to give up OG at all. OG may never be more than a 4th/5th option, but he's so good defensively and has the physical tools to play all 5 positions on that end. I can't give that up for a guy who requests a trade every year.

*Frankly would still not really want to give up anything good given Butler's age, possible fit and possibility he could bolt, while also taking Kawhi's with him.

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Agreed. Pascal is a high energy guy, borderline starter but all the talks of comparing him to Draymond Green are vastly premature. I think Pascal is the kind of player that will wow you on some nights but on other nights especially playing against high caliber defensive teams will be shut down. I am still not confident his shot will be consistent enough to be an effective weapon and as a result his playoffs output will be less than his season output.

If the deal on the table for Butler and they insist on Pascal than you do it but not OG.

[golden]

In other news: Bruno debuted today for the Rockets playing 9 mins, going 2 for 3 with 6 pts, 3 rbs, 2 assists, 1 steal and 2 blocks.

If Bruno become's a rotation player...we blew it!

darylmorey: 0 years away

https://www.instagram.com/p/BoUPoMCh...-by=darylmorey

[white men can't jump]

Shooting and/or defensive awareness are needed for him to crack the starting lineup. With a shot he could be the starting 4, with improved defensive awareness he could be the lone big in small ball lineups.

His awareness on both ends need to improve. He is still generally erratic. He plays with incredible energy, but can be all over the place. It's tough to project because he basically didn't play much quality organized ball until he got to the NBA. He may never be able to put everything together.

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[KeonClark]

He had a decent debut game here too like 10 years ago

2 years ago from 2 years ago, actually

[KeonClark]

His awareness on both ends need to improve. He is still generally erratic. He plays with incredible energy, but can be all over the place. It's tough to project because he basically didn't play much quality organized ball until he got to the NBA. He may never be able to put everything together.

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If Pascal reached his ceiling today hes already a very good 26th overall pick. I hope people dont turn on his before Christmas because everybody has been whispering "Draymond green" all summer

[golden]

If Pascal reached his ceiling today hes already a very good 26th overall pick. I hope people dont turn on his before Christmas because everybody has been whispering "Draymond green" all summer

One thing that's being reinforced is how little you can extrapolate from anything that a player does in the off-season (Summer League, Drew League, Rico Hines, etc....) Like DeMar posting videos of himself hitting 5000 straight 3-pointers which translated into 31% in the regular season and 28.6% when it counted in the playoffs.

[S.R.]

His awareness on both ends need to improve. He is still generally erratic. He plays with incredible energy, but can be all over the place.