PRESEASON GAME 5: Toronto Raptors @ New Orleans Pelicans - OCT 11, 2018 8PM ET

[Fuchan]

Normally this makes sense.. but his is the NBA where the norm is often nonsensical. The NBA thrives with crap like twitter beefs, players who hate each other and who is going to play where in a year or two. This holds sway until...

The season starts and Jimmy who wants out so bad he pulled that stunt at practice is now going to be a major distraction in the room and basically put whatever Thibs and the GM are trying to do with the other players in the toilet ....

and for being really hard to move this guy....

No matter who or where.. there is always a GM in any sport who thinks they can fix the problem that is making the player a problem with their special brand of treatment. Its hilarious.

Yeah I see what you're saying. Talent over everything in sports. Even if you are a headache. For every player that stirs the pot, there is a GM out there that thinks they can handle it. I can see Jimmy's frustration with the Wolves.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Apparently Butler showed up today and said he is willing to play. I guess he figured out he is more likely to get his value back up if he is out there winning games. Total damage control right now. The NBA is so full of drama compared to other sports. It's awesome

[planetmars]

SI hired an NBA scout to preview all 30 NBA teams:
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/10/10/nb...s-lebron-james

His take on the Raptors:

If Kawhi Leonard is in top form, that’s a really damn good trade. DeMar DeRozan’s a really good player and his midrange game is unreal, but Kawhi fits what Toronto is all about. A two-way player. What can’t he do? Is he that much better than DeMar? Yes. People forget how dominant he can be. Off-the-dribble, catch-and-shoot. He’s unreal. He’s probably the best defender on LeBron in the league, and you’re going to have to deal with Jayson Tatum and Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward and Ben Simmons and Victor Oladipo. . . . The underrated thing is their bench is a year older and a year wiser. They’re a really well-rounded team if they can get 20 or 30 points out of their bench on a nightly basis. . . . Kyle Lowry’s expiration is coming, though. We’re getting to the point where you wonder how much mileage he has left in the tank. It gets tougher and tougher to keep up with conditioning, and obviously he’s not a slim guy. He’s kind of built herky-jerky. You always wonder at what point in guys’ careers, what point are they going to go down? He’s 32 now. You naturally wonder when that’ll happen. . . . Does that mean Fred VanVleet has more of a role? Will that put more on Delon Wright’s plate. Who kind of takes over more? . . . OG Anunoby was playing really, really big moments as a rookie. People weren’t talking about him. This Raptors team one through 10 is really good. Just because you couldn’t beat LeBron—OK, he’s gone now. We’ll see what this group is really made of, especially under a creative offensive mind in Nick Nurse. . . . I don’t know if the fit’s ideal with Serge Ibaka and Jonas Valanciunas. They’re both pretty good in a vacuum, they had some success with Ibaka at the five. Especially now with the trade they made, they even used OG a little at the four last year, they have a lot of versatility they can utilize in their lineups, so I think there’s a way they can maximize those bigs.

Not a bad job. I'd say he was pretty spot on actually.

[KeonClark]

SI hired an NBA scout to preview all 30 NBA teams:
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/10/10/nb...s-lebron-james

His take on the Raptors:



Not a bad job. I'd say he was pretty spot on actually.

The Lowry thing is an elephant in the room. His decline began last year. Hope he can maintain the play of a top 10 pg for 2 more years

[The Great One]

That's not a prediction. That's the goddamn truth.

100%

They played like a lottery team after Butler got injured last year. They were in 4th place before the injury, they ended up playing the Nuggets for the 8th seed in a win or go home game in the 82nd game of the season.

[golden]

100%

They played like a lottery team after Butler got injured last year. They were in 4th place before the injury, they ended up playing the Nuggets for the 8th seed in a win or go home game in the 82nd game of the season.

Problem is that Wiggins is a negative impact player, so he cancels out any good that Towns does. Pretty much every advanced metric (RPM, BPM, VORP, etc...) exposes the ugly truth about Maple Jordan. Inefficient chucker with horrendous defense.

[KeonClark]

Problem is that Wiggins is a negative impact player, so he cancels out any good that Towns does. Pretty much every advanced metric (RPM, BPM, VORP, etc...) exposes the ugly truth about Maple Jordan. Inefficient chucker with horrendous defense.

Wiggins is literally DeRozan 4 years ago

Difference being DeRozan improves every year and Wiggins is the same guy he was since they drafted him

[golden]

Wiggins is literally DeRozan 4 years ago

Difference being DeRozan improves every year and Wiggins is the same guy he was since they drafted him

DeMar didn't actually start improving until his 5th year, when he discovered the FT line in a big way. Wiggins is about to start his 5th season. But yeah, the similarities are pretty much bang on for their first 4 seasons. That means Wiggy will be an all-star this year? Nah.

[KeonClark]

DeMar didn't actually start improving until his 5th year, when he discovered the FT line in a big way. Wiggins is about to start his 5th season. But yeah, the similarities are pretty much bang on for their first 4 seasons. That means Wiggy will be an all-star this year? Nah.

Semantics. Point being Derozan entered the league a far worse player than Wiggins and now he's a far better player than Wiggins who's still the same phenom he was...in 12th grade

[Scraptor]

DeMar didn't actually start improving until his 5th year, when he discovered the FT line in a big way. Wiggins is about to start his 5th season. But yeah, the similarities are pretty much bang on for their first 4 seasons. That means Wiggy will be an all-star this year? Nah.

DeRozan definitely improved his first four years.
DeMar's assist rate years 1-5
4.9%
8.6%
10.8%
12.0%
18.9%

He started developing the midrange game in year 3.
% of shots taken from 0-3ft
44.9%
29.7%
24.8%
20.2%
15.3%

Also he was always improving his handle... Remember how he couldn't drive without fumbling it? Even as his usage rate went up from 18.1% to 28.0% his turnover rate barely changed from 9.4% to 9.5%.

That all said, a lot of the growth was happening under the surface. You would see him struggling but that was all part of the process, because growth isn't linear.

It was particularly noticeable in year 3 when Casey came in and forced a slowdown half-court offense.

Wiggins had to deal with something similar last year as Butler took over lead duties (don't let the FGA fool you, Butler had the ball in his hands much longer than Wiggins). I think Wiggins actually has been learning/growing, and although I don't think he has the same fire as DeMar, I do not think Wiggins is the same player he was in Grade 12. People just like rushing to proclaim busts, because mega hype often leads to mega backlash.

If Butler leaves and Wiggins is the same as last year I'll cede that the critics were right. But I think he is definitely not done improving.

[Fuchan]

DeRozan definitely improved his first four years.
DeMar's assist rate years 1-5
4.9%
8.6%
10.8%
12.0%
18.9%

He started developing the midrange game in year 3.
% of shots taken from 0-3ft
44.9%
29.7%
24.8%
20.2%
15.3%

Also he was always improving his handle... Remember how he couldn't drive without fumbling it? Even as his usage rate went up from 18.1% to 28.0% his turnover rate barely changed from 9.4% to 9.5%.

That all said, a lot of the growth was happening under the surface. You would see him struggling but that was all part of the process, because growth isn't linear.

It was particularly noticeable in year 3 when Casey came in and forced a slowdown half-court offense.

Wiggins had to deal with something similar last year as Butler took over lead duties (don't let the FGA fool you, Butler had the ball in his hands much longer than Wiggins). I think Wiggins actually has been learning/growing, and although I don't think he has the same fire as DeMar, I do not think Wiggins is the same player he was in Grade 12. People just like rushing to proclaim busts, because mega hype often leads to mega backlash.

If Butler leaves and Wiggins is the same as last year I'll cede that the critics were right. But I think he is definitely not done improving.

You could argue Butler getting traded now would be better for Wiggins. They may struggle this year, but it would put more of a load on Wiggins and more than likely give them another high pick to pair with him and KAT. Or flip the high pick for another young impact player. Either way the west is so tough and Butler is almost guaranteed to leave after this year in free agency. Wiggins needs the pressure of being the guy to get better kind of like Casey made DeRozan the guy despite his flaws

[hotfuzz]

And the plot thickens...

@ShamsCharania it wasn’t no players meeting you just made that up bro y’all gotta relax with this fake news

— Jeff Teague (@Teague0) October 11, 2018

[Bendit]

Semantics. Point being Derozan entered the league a far worse player than Wiggins and now he's a far better player than Wiggins who's still the same phenom he was...in 12th grade

Good scout. Way back when Wiggins was the toast of these boards and every which way was analysed as to how to tank, sell their sister etc contemplated to acquire that top pick to draft Wiggy. I got flamed because I dared post about a conversation I had with the dad (a friend) of a player on the same prep team. The word was that while being supremely talented and athletic Andrew was generally a lazy player who rarely did gym work and lagged in the leadership dept. in spite of him being top dog not only on his team but the entire upcoming draft. And so it seems it came to pass.

My friend's son went on to Univ. and now in the G-league. Not a bad player... has got sniffs from a few NBA teams but hasn't stuck. He could.

[KeonClark]

And the plot thickens...

@ShamsCharania it wasn’t no players meeting you just made that up bro y’all gotta relax with this fake news

— Jeff Teague (@Teague0) October 11, 2018

When Shams loses, you know who wins? Still undefeated heavyweight reporter of the world

[G__Deane]

I don't care.
Game Day!

[Fuchan]

I don't care.
Game Day!

Too bad we can't watch it. Wednesday can't come fast enough.