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Thread: Game #37: Raptors (26-10) @ Orlando Magic (14-19); Friday, Dec. 28th at 7:00 pm on SN1

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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I'm not talking about what the team may or may not need to do (for the record they do not need to rush a move). I'm talking about what the team CAN do. Which seems relevant to the discussion. If you want the team to improve because of a perceived and as-yet-nonexistent arms race in the East, your suggestions should come in the form of trade proposals, not free agents, because the former is dramatically more likely to happen given the realities of their cap sheet.
    I've already said that I see neither of significance happening. Masai will do something, but due to the constraints of both salaries and available trade chips (worth very little), I see other team's chance of improving (76ers already did, Celtic will imo) greatly exceeding the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer DanH's Avatar
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    Quote G__Deane wrote: View Post
    I've already said that I see neither of significance happening. Masai will do something, but due to the constraints of both salaries and available trade chips (worth very little), I see other team's chance of improving (76ers already did, Celtic will imo) greatly exceeding the Raptors.
    Sure, but both teams have a ways to go to surpass the Raptors. Like, the Raptors are better than the 76ers after their Butler trade. The Celtics have been on the verge of a massive move for ages, I'll worry about them cashing in their chips when it actually happens.

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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sure, but both teams have a ways to go to surpass the Raptors. Like, the Raptors are better than the 76ers after their Butler trade. The Celtics have been on the verge of a massive move for ages, I'll worry about them cashing in their chips when it actually happens.
    Sure, the Celtics have the assets, but I get the distinct impression that they haven't figured out yet what their needs are yet. Their pieces don't fit, and they know that they don't fit, but enough of them fit together (in twos and threes) that they're bewildered as to what the pieces are that don't fit.

    What the Celtics probably actually want to do is send *Hayward* out, particularly if they can bring back someone like AD when they do. But Hayward hasn't shown enough to be enticing trade bait, so the Celtics would still need to decide which of their promising youngsters they would want to part with as part of the deal. And I think the earliest the Celtics are likely to admit that Hayward hasn't worked out like they hoped is this off-season.

    At least the Raptors know what they are looking for (a reliable 3-point shooter, preferably with adequate defense and/or playmaking as well; possibly a Bebe replacement if they think Boucher is going to get continuously steamrolled in the playoffs). How they are going to bring in the players they are looking for is the big question. At this point I see CJ being waived under the stretch provision (assuming that's allowed) and a bought out vet-min player unless an unexpected trade opportunity emerges.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sure, but both teams have a ways to go to surpass the Raptors. Like, the Raptors are better than the 76ers after their Butler trade. The Celtics have been on the verge of a massive move for ages, I'll worry about them cashing in their chips when it actually happens.

    The Celtics are about to run out of chips...

    Outside of Brown and Tatum the Celtics have had a pantload of 15 to 25 range picks for about 3 or 4 years. It’s to the point where they annually draft 2 or 3 more players in the mid pack range in round 1 and one or more in round 2 and are then are forced to cut a couple of younger players who were acquired with the prior year’s mid round picks. They just don’t have enough roster slots.

    This year is no different..In what’s looking like a top 5 heavy draft they have their own in the 20s...The Kings pick is looking anywhere from 12 to 15 instead of top 5...Memphis’s pick at this point is also shaping up in the 12 to 15 range this year..The Clips pick is in the 17 to 20 range. Thats a lot of quantity but short on quality in a non depth type draft.

    So the endless supply of picks chatter is going to be over this year...they are all mid round picks and they either are looking at trading em or having to use them this year. Adding as many as 4 new prospects to a team that already has a bunch of young players is pretty unlikely outcome you might think. So a Trade is the likely outcome. Davis is unlikely to be moved for Jaylen Brown, two picks around 13 and 14 and Semi Ojelehe or Terry Rozier despite how dumb people think Demps is.

    It’s getting warmer in the GMs chair with each passing day....and the warmer it gets the tougher it is to make a deal to get a good return on declining assets.

    Expectations were really high this year for the Chowders.A 60 win season was in the fucking bag in the summer. At 21 and 16 the Chowders have to go 40 and 5 the rest of the way to meet that standard. With the lingering odour of the Isiah Thomas damaged goods trade Ainge has his work cut out for him.
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Jan 1st, 2019 at 12:46 PM.

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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    The Celtics are about to run out of chips...

    Outside of Brown and Tatum the Celtics have had a pantload of 15 to 25 range picks for about 3 or 4 years. It’s to the point where they annually draft 2 or 3 more players in the mid pack range in round 1 and one or more in round 2 and are then are forced to cut a couple of younger players who were acquired with the prior year’s mid round picks. They just don’t have enough roster slots.

    This year is no different..In what’s looking like a top 5 heavy draft they have their own in the 20s...The Kings pick is looking anywhere from 12 to 15 instead of top 5...Memphis’s pick at this point is also shaping up in the 12 to 15 range this year..The Clips pick is in the 17 to 20 range. Thats a lot of quantity but short on quality in a non depth type draft.

    So the endless supply of picks chatter is going to be over this year...they are all mid round picks and they either are looking at trading em or having to use them this year. Adding as many as 4 new prospects to a team that already has a bunch of young players is pretty unlikely outcome you might think. So a Trade is the likely outcome. Davis is unlikely to be moved for Jaylen Brown, two picks around 13 and 14 and Semi Ojelehe or Terry Rozier despite how dumb people think Demps is.

    It’s getting warmer in the GMs chair with each passing day....and the warmer it gets the tougher it is to make a deal to get a good return on declining assets.

    Expectations were really high this year for the Chowders.A 60 win season was in the fucking bag in the summer. At 21 and 16 the Chowders have to go 40 and 5 the rest of the way to meet that standard. With the lingering odour of the Isiah Thomas damaged goods trade Ainge has his work cut out for him.
    Ainge is like Pop. He'll almost certainly never be fired and will retire whenever he wants to retire.

    Even if he doesn't cash those chips in for Davis there are plenty of other options out there. The limiting factor on the Celtics at present is the contract of Gordon Hayward. $31 million is a lot of dead weight unless he turns it around. But I read a rumor that Morey is desperate enough to be considering a deal for him, so if Ainge can get out of that deal he has a ton of options.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Ainge is like Pop. He'll almost certainly never be fired and will retire whenever he wants to retire.

    Even if he doesn't cash those chips in for Davis there are plenty of other options out there. The limiting factor on the Celtics at present is the contract of Gordon Hayward. $31 million is a lot of dead weight unless he turns it around. But I read a rumor that Morey is desperate enough to be considering a deal for him, so if Ainge can get out of that deal he has a ton of options.
    Agree... Ainge is a long way from the door in Boston.

    So lets poke at the Hayward thoughts to get out from underneath that one...Have to think Ainge wants someone who Morey wants to keep... Eric Gordon comes to mind...Does Boston want Capella when they still have Horford.. Does Morey want to move him or Gordon as an anchor piece in order to make salary work ? And in Americas whitest city... does Boston really want to move Gord who is a marketing dream in the open minded areas like South Boston ?

    Lets kick at the cap situation. Boston is capped out. Its Washington bad.

    The Chowders have at 30M Gord and Horford and.... if he doesn't recant... Irving when he signs next year for likely north of 35M AAV deal.. Thats 95 to 100M depending.

    At 15M they got Mucus Not So Smart...takes them 115M ish

    Then they have to figure out how much to pay Marcus Morris and Terry Rozier next year... guessing those guys want in the Smart range.. so add another 30M$ and your at 145....thats if they want to sign them. Replacing them will be draft choices if they opt out.

    And thats just six guys ! Tatum and Brown are still on rookie scale deals which is great.... so you have a really good team... but thats luxury repeater tax for a while..... Serious money at multiplier rates of 3 or 4 bucks tax on the dollar.

    Good thing Wycllife Grousbeck the Thrid was born naked into the world with the entire fucking silver tea service shoved up his ass instead of just a sliver spoon in his mouth...but even for him.. thats a lot of dough.

    Couldn't happen to a nicer crew...
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Jan 1st, 2019 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    Agree... Ainge is a long way from the door in Boston.

    So lets poke at the Hayward thoughts to get out from underneath that one...Have to think Ainge wants someone who Morey wants to keep... Eric Gordon comes to mind...Does Boston want Capella when they still have Horford.. Does Morey want to move him or Gordon as an anchor piece in order to make salary work ? And in Americas whitest city... does Boston really want to move Gord who is a marketing dream in the open minded areas like South Boston ?

    Lets kick at the cap situation. Boston is capped out. Its Washington bad.

    The Chowders have at 30M Gord and Horford and.... if he doesn't recant... Irving when he signs next year for likely north of 35M AAV deal.. Thats 95 to 100M depending.

    At 15M they got Mucus Not So Smart...takes them 115M ish

    Then they have to figure out how much to pay Marcus Morris and Terry Rozier next year... guessing those guys want in the Smart range.. so add another 30M$ and your at 145....thats if they want to sign them. Replacing them will be draft choices if they opt out.

    And thats just six guys ! Tatum and Brown are still on rookie scale deals which is great.... so you have a really good team... but thats luxury repeater tax for a while..... Serious money at multiplier rates of 3 or 4 bucks tax on the dollar.

    Good thing Wycllife Grousbeck the Thrid was born naked into the world with the entire fucking silver tea service shoved up his ass instead of just a sliver spoon in his mouth...but even for him.. thats a lot of dough.

    Couldn't happen to a nicer crew...
    Sorry man I should have elaborated. The thinking was that Morey would throw some picks at Hayward the way they offered 4 for Jimmy Butler. Ainge doesn't need anything in return for Hayward except cap relief, as Hayward is on the bench. This was from Rockets insider cyberx who broke a lot of news.

    Rozier almost certainly won't be re-signed. Morris is as expendable as Bradley and Crowder were.

    Celtics are not as invincible as they previously seemed but still a bad idea to bet against Ainge imo.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Sorry man I should have elaborated. The thinking was that Morey would throw some picks at Hayward the way they offered 4 for Jimmy Butler. Ainge doesn't need anything in return for Hayward except cap relief, as Hayward is on the bench. This was from Rockets insider cyberx who broke a lot of news.

    Rozier almost certainly won't be re-signed. Morris is as expendable as Bradley and Crowder were.

    Celtics are not as invincible as they previously seemed but still a bad idea to bet against Ainge imo.
    Both teams are over the cap.. so some salary has to come back to Ainge if he makes that move to unload gord... and houston doesn't have any bad expiring deals .... So thinking gord and his dna stay in the whitest city in nba....

    Ainges room for a big trade for big talent coming in is pretty thin right now... he is playing in a phone booth...

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    I thought you were allowed to go over the cap....no?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer DanH's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    I thought you were allowed to go over the cap....no?
    You can, but with limits. One of which being, if you are over the cap, in any trade, your outgoing salary has to come close (+/- 25% in big deals) to matching your incoming salary if you increase your salary in the trade.

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