2018-19 Trade Rumours and Discussion - Deadline February 7th 2019

[Tmac2darak]

yes, good point.

Yes but are they coming to Toronto if they clear?

[Tmac2darak]

Goddamnit Abbas read the OP, it was specifically for you and tenforthewin lol

Their not getting Harris

[white men can't jump]

Lin is definitely a better playmaker than either Delon or FVV. He has an assist rate almost double that of Wright and about 25% higher than FVV, and he's notched much higher levels in the past. He's very good in the pick and roll and would probably be dynamite with JV.

That said, I don't know why we'd add a fourth point guard unless Lowry's back is pretty serious. It makes no sense when we have other more pressing needs.

Can't say I agree with whatever the stats say. Lin can only go right and usually looks to score. Can also hog the ball.

Wright is a good playmaker, he just has been in awkward fits since we drafted him. Between injuries, moving him to SG a lot and not having good pieces around him in his lineups I think it's more comfort than abilities with him.

FVV was a smart, if limited, playmaker until this year.

Honestly feel like it's fair to start blaming Nurse and the coaching staff at this point. We are very disorganized far too often. Seems like he's a "players coach" who doesn't want to restrict guys even when they need it, and has a hands off approach.

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[MixxAOR]

Get Beal or Die Trying

[Truth Teller]

Well those last 3 guys are worse players and playmakers than Wright and FVV.

Teague is an average starter who won't be happy moving to the bench when Lowry returns.

Beal is a great shooter, but not really a playmaker and would involve a massive shakeup

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No... we can only compare 2018-19 FVV with them. This years FVV is hot garbage. Also Lin has proven he can use the PnR, which FVV sucks at.

[white men can't jump]

No... we can only compare 2018-19 FVV with them. This years FVV is hot garbage. Also Lin has proven he can use the PnR, which FVV sucks at.

Well then 2018-19 Lin is nothing special either. Putting up ok but unspectacular numbers for one of the worst teams in the league.

I honestly don't believe anyone can say Lin would be an obvious upgrade. It's entirely possible he comes here and struggles to use Nurse's non-system. Remember, we don't have a good screener with JV out, and we employ far too much "iso" in the sense of not utilizing screens well. So you'd end up with a lot of Lin trying to beat his man off the dribble. Not sure how good the returns would be there. And you're looking at a situation where you likely trade assets for a rental. What do we give up for something that could be at best a slight upgrade? Personally I'd like Masai to keep obviously winning trades, and not go into panic mode.

When several guys have taken a step back in one season (and of course some other have improved), it's time to look for reasons beyond "oh apparently all these guys suck". There are two likely reasons (possibly overlapping) for struggles: guys have been hobbled a lot this year and the coach is not using all guys to their strengths all that well.

[white men can't jump]

In my opinion, there's way more merit to the idea of going after another all-star like Beal. I'm not sure I'd be a fan of specifically trading for Beal, but if we want to try and tangibly improve our chances at a championship this year that makes way more sense to me than trying to get a retread backup level player. I'd be completely shocked if the difference between us winning a ring was Lin playing instead of one of FVV or Wright. I would not be shocked if the difference was a guy like Beal playing 30+ mpg instead of those minutes going to some assortment of our role players.

Also, the final price for Beal might not end up being that high in the end. I saw on hoopshype the Wiz rumoured price is something like 2 players and 2 picks? Presumably they'd want at least one of those picks to be 1st rounders I would guess. Also at least one of the 2 players to be young and promising in some way, if not both. Who can pay that price? How long before the Wizards start lowering it if they keep sucking? Might not end up costing that much. Salary filler, a young player and a 2nd rounder? And if they start playing better, they probably keep him through the season to try and make another playoff appearance, right?

[Scraptor]

In my opinion, there's way more merit to the idea of going after another all-star like Beal. I'm not sure I'd be a fan of specifically trading for Beal, but if we want to try and tangibly improve our chances at a championship this year that makes way more sense to me than trying to get a retread backup level player. I'd be completely shocked if the difference between us winning a ring was Lin playing instead of one of FVV or Wright. I would not be shocked if the difference was a guy like Beal playing 30+ mpg instead of those minutes going to some assortment of our role players.

Also, the final price for Beal might not end up being that high in the end. I saw on hoopshype the Wiz rumoured price is something like 2 players and 2 picks? Presumably they'd want at least one of those picks to be 1st rounders I would guess. Also at least one of the 2 players to be young and promising in some way, if not both. Who can pay that price? How long before the Wizards start lowering it if they keep sucking? Might not end up costing that much. Salary filler, a young player and a 2nd rounder? And if they start playing better, they probably keep him through the season to try and make another playoff appearance, right?

I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.

[DerozansSpurs]

I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.

For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.

[Scraptor]

For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.

Yeah we definitely keep Pascal. I was just talking in terms of the larger salaries, because we need to match $25mm.

Beal is a second tier star, but the opportunities to add someone of his caliber at his age (he's less than a year older than Pascal), and under control for two full seasons after this, are rare. I can't think of another shooting guard on his level who might be available except maaaybe Josh Richardson, and it feels like that window is shut now.

[white men can't jump]

I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.

I would rather try to move Serge than JV. I still have no faith that Serge will be as effective as JV come playoffs, or that he would even be noticeably better than his awful performance last year. The last couple of weeks just make me firmer in that belief. Serge cannot physically hold up.

Whatever issue is bugging his knees is real and chronic, even if it's not major. It makes him inconsistent and unreliable, and he looks bad out there. Doesn't really give you any advantages over JV. The one matchup we really need Serge for is against Boston, but if he is "bad Serge", don't think he gives us an advantage there either.

I would try to centre the deal around Ibaka as the main salary filler. Then I trust Masai to figure out the rest.

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[white men can't jump]

For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.

Remember though that Beal would become the 3rd best player on our team...the guys you list are the best players on their teams (except arguably Butler).

I am also not sold on Beal, but getting a shooter who also scores at a high volume and is an all-star talent is the right kind of gamble. He's only 25 too. Masai has an excellent track record with trades and we are still deep enough to be able to afford giving up some pieces.

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[Puffer]

....Masai has an excellent track record with trades and we are still deep enough to be able to afford giving up some pieces.

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This would be the key part of your post. Unbelievable that the Raptors got deeper by trading for Kawhi, but it is true. They are in a much better position to make a trade now than before.

[Demographic Shift]

Raps have pinpointed their shortcomings and are making a non desperation long view trade for an assistant equipment manager from the Denver Nuggets.

Source: Abbas's cousin who went to the University of Denver 4 years ago and knows a guy who knows a guy who has worked part time at the Pepsi Centre and just hears things.

Its a lock ....

[Beneperez]

I'm not so sure I'm as gung-ho on making a huge trade for a guy like Beal as everyone else is. I really like the current starting line-up and realistically, I don't want to bench Danny in the playoffs since that's where his real value is. He's going to come up big by doing the small things (like the Boston last minute block or Orlando game winner). I'm much more eager to look at a guy like E'twaun Moore who is a genuine back up shooting guard. He absolutely torched us earlier on in the season and is realistically just as good if not better than CJ was at his peak. I'd do a Delon+ CJ for him easily.