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Thread: 2018-19 Trade Rumours and Discussion - Deadline February 7th 2019

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    Quote Truth Teller wrote: View Post
    No... we can only compare 2018-19 FVV with them. This years FVV is hot garbage. Also Lin has proven he can use the PnR, which FVV sucks at.
    Well then 2018-19 Lin is nothing special either. Putting up ok but unspectacular numbers for one of the worst teams in the league.

    I honestly don't believe anyone can say Lin would be an obvious upgrade. It's entirely possible he comes here and struggles to use Nurse's non-system. Remember, we don't have a good screener with JV out, and we employ far too much "iso" in the sense of not utilizing screens well. So you'd end up with a lot of Lin trying to beat his man off the dribble. Not sure how good the returns would be there. And you're looking at a situation where you likely trade assets for a rental. What do we give up for something that could be at best a slight upgrade? Personally I'd like Masai to keep obviously winning trades, and not go into panic mode.

    When several guys have taken a step back in one season (and of course some other have improved), it's time to look for reasons beyond "oh apparently all these guys suck". There are two likely reasons (possibly overlapping) for struggles: guys have been hobbled a lot this year and the coach is not using all guys to their strengths all that well.

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    In my opinion, there's way more merit to the idea of going after another all-star like Beal. I'm not sure I'd be a fan of specifically trading for Beal, but if we want to try and tangibly improve our chances at a championship this year that makes way more sense to me than trying to get a retread backup level player. I'd be completely shocked if the difference between us winning a ring was Lin playing instead of one of FVV or Wright. I would not be shocked if the difference was a guy like Beal playing 30+ mpg instead of those minutes going to some assortment of our role players.

    Also, the final price for Beal might not end up being that high in the end. I saw on hoopshype the Wiz rumoured price is something like 2 players and 2 picks? Presumably they'd want at least one of those picks to be 1st rounders I would guess. Also at least one of the 2 players to be young and promising in some way, if not both. Who can pay that price? How long before the Wizards start lowering it if they keep sucking? Might not end up costing that much. Salary filler, a young player and a 2nd rounder? And if they start playing better, they probably keep him through the season to try and make another playoff appearance, right?

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    In my opinion, there's way more merit to the idea of going after another all-star like Beal. I'm not sure I'd be a fan of specifically trading for Beal, but if we want to try and tangibly improve our chances at a championship this year that makes way more sense to me than trying to get a retread backup level player. I'd be completely shocked if the difference between us winning a ring was Lin playing instead of one of FVV or Wright. I would not be shocked if the difference was a guy like Beal playing 30+ mpg instead of those minutes going to some assortment of our role players.

    Also, the final price for Beal might not end up being that high in the end. I saw on hoopshype the Wiz rumoured price is something like 2 players and 2 picks? Presumably they'd want at least one of those picks to be 1st rounders I would guess. Also at least one of the 2 players to be young and promising in some way, if not both. Who can pay that price? How long before the Wizards start lowering it if they keep sucking? Might not end up costing that much. Salary filler, a young player and a 2nd rounder? And if they start playing better, they probably keep him through the season to try and make another playoff appearance, right?
    I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

    The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

    As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

    It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

    The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

    As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

    It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.
    For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

    Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.

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    Quote DerozansSpurs wrote: View Post
    For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

    Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.
    Yeah we definitely keep Pascal. I was just talking in terms of the larger salaries, because we need to match $25mm.

    Beal is a second tier star, but the opportunities to add someone of his caliber at his age (he's less than a year older than Pascal), and under control for two full seasons after this, are rare. I can't think of another shooting guard on his level who might be available except maaaybe Josh Richardson, and it feels like that window is shut now.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I agree 100%. Our championship window is right here, right now, and I see little point in cosmetic tweaks. If Beal is available you throw the kitchen sink at the Wiz, or at least try to convince them it's the kitchen sink.

    The two tricky things are salary matching and the picks. To match salaries I think one of FVV or JV has to go the other way, assuming we keep Kyle/Kawhi/Serge/Danny. I don't want to move Danny because I think it could easily blow up our chance at re-signing Kawhi.

    As for the picks, will the Wiz accept a 2021 pick? That's a long wait and I am certain someone like the Pelicans would top it.

    It looks complicated but if anyone can make it work it's Masai. The only issue is that he tends to wait to squeeze max value out of every deal and I think there may be too many eager suitors for that to be an effective strategy this time.
    I would rather try to move Serge than JV. I still have no faith that Serge will be as effective as JV come playoffs, or that he would even be noticeably better than his awful performance last year. The last couple of weeks just make me firmer in that belief. Serge cannot physically hold up.

    Whatever issue is bugging his knees is real and chronic, even if it's not major. It makes him inconsistent and unreliable, and he looks bad out there. Doesn't really give you any advantages over JV. The one matchup we really need Serge for is against Boston, but if he is "bad Serge", don't think he gives us an advantage there either.

    I would try to centre the deal around Ibaka as the main salary filler. Then I trust Masai to figure out the rest.

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    Quote DerozansSpurs wrote: View Post
    For me, the untouchable players would be Kyle/Kawhi/Pascal/Danny.

    Careful with throwing the kitchen sink at the Wizards. I like adding Bradley Beal for his scoring and shooting abilities, but he's still a one-time All-Star and isn't good defensively. He's a good player with shot creation ability, but not a difference maker on the level of someone like Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard or Jimmy Butler.
    Remember though that Beal would become the 3rd best player on our team...the guys you list are the best players on their teams (except arguably Butler).

    I am also not sold on Beal, but getting a shooter who also scores at a high volume and is an all-star talent is the right kind of gamble. He's only 25 too. Masai has an excellent track record with trades and we are still deep enough to be able to afford giving up some pieces.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    ....Masai has an excellent track record with trades and we are still deep enough to be able to afford giving up some pieces.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    This would be the key part of your post. Unbelievable that the Raptors got deeper by trading for Kawhi, but it is true. They are in a much better position to make a trade now than before.

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    Raps have pinpointed their shortcomings and are making a non desperation long view trade for an assistant equipment manager from the Denver Nuggets.

    Source: Abbas's cousin who went to the University of Denver 4 years ago and knows a guy who knows a guy who has worked part time at the Pepsi Centre and just hears things.

    Its a lock ....

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    I'm not so sure I'm as gung-ho on making a huge trade for a guy like Beal as everyone else is. I really like the current starting line-up and realistically, I don't want to bench Danny in the playoffs since that's where his real value is. He's going to come up big by doing the small things (like the Boston last minute block or Orlando game winner). I'm much more eager to look at a guy like E'twaun Moore who is a genuine back up shooting guard. He absolutely torched us earlier on in the season and is realistically just as good if not better than CJ was at his peak. I'd do a Delon+ CJ for him easily.

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    Masai is in a bind. The assets required to make a trade that will actually move the needle are some of the same assets that he’d want to have around if Kawhi leaves in the summer. Otherwise, it’s a no-brainer to trade anyone not named Leonard or Green in a bid for the Finals this year. But if you don’t know that Kawhi is leaning toward staying in Toronto, it would be a bitter pill to swallow to give up any of OG, Pascal, or Delon (young, cheap, and still developing) right now.

    That said, Beal might be the only one worth that kind of risk. He’s also still young, controllable for a couple of years, and would make a big difference in the Raps starting lineup.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Masai is in a bind. The assets required to make a trade that will actually move the needle are some of the same assets that he’d want to have around if Kawhi leaves in the summer. Otherwise, it’s a no-brainer to trade anyone not named Leonard or Green in a bid for the Finals this year. But if you don’t know that Kawhi is leaning toward staying in Toronto, it would be a bitter pill to swallow to give up any of OG, Pascal, or Delon (young, cheap, and still developing) right now.

    That said, Beal might be the only one worth that kind of risk. He’s also still young, controllable for a couple of years, and would make a big difference in the Raps starting lineup.
    I have no problems giving up BOTH OG and Delon in a Beal package. The issue is Siakam, he provides arguably more value to us right now and in the long-term than Beal would.

    I'd basically be willing to do any deal with Washington where the following conditions are satisfied:

    - Lowry, Kawhi, Green and Siakam are retained
    - At least one of Ibaka or JV is retained
    - We do not give up any 1st round picks later than 2021. (i.e. just one future 1st)

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    You keep Siakam. You don't trade every promising asset to get slightly better in the short term, especially with the uncertainty around Kawhi's free agency. Siakam improved significantly in a short amount of time, I'd say he can quite easily become a better player than Beal in the future. He is a unique modern NBA player. He is tall, has length, can handle the ball, quicker than most big men, improving his jump shot and a great ability to finish around the rim.
    Kawhi Leonard is a Toronto Raptor

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    The thing is why does Washington trade Beal? He’s young and on a good contract. They should be trying to trade wall and fire the GM.

    If I’m Washington I look to trade Beal this summer after all the free agents sign where they sign and Anthony David accepts/rejects the super max. From there maybe they can trade him for Celtics picks or lakers prospects if they don’t get AD.

    Now if Beal demands a trade and doesn’t want to play in Washington anymore, then a package involving serge, OG and Delon becomes more viable in my opinion.

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    Quote Zainab wrote: View Post

    Raptors are usually so tight-lipped about things that the amount of detail released here is interesting. I think they did that on purpose to show how high the price for Beal is to scare away other suitors. I doubt Masai backs away from any talks

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    I think one of the reasons Kawhi would resign is because of the versatility of our youth going forward. The last thing, I think, you want to do is trade some of them away. That's what allows our versatility in 2020 to sign a big name star. I wouldn't want to compromise that or a rebuild if he doesn't resign. I think tweaking is the better route, rather than a full out gutting for a star (unless Giannis or Davis comes available)

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    Quote Zainab wrote: View Post

    sounds like whoever "LegionHoops" is just using our forum as a "source" lol

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    Quote Shredder wrote: View Post
    I think one of the reasons Kawhi would resign is because of the versatility of our youth going forward. The last thing, I think, you want to do is trade some of them away. That's what allows our versatility in 2020 to sign a big name star. I wouldn't want to compromise that or a rebuild if he doesn't resign. I think tweaking is the better route, rather than a full out gutting for a star (unless Giannis or Davis comes available)
    I think everyone agrees that we should keep Pascal. The question is whether you send OG, how many picks, and who is the salary ballast. And whether whatever you come up with can get a deal done.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    sounds like whoever "LegionHoops" is just using our forum as a "source" lol

    There are plenty of sources.

    https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1692519

    https://www.nbcsports.com/washington...ards-price-tag

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