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Thread: Game #41 Raptors (28-12) @ Buck (26-10) NBA TV SN1 830 (Toronto) 730 (Winnipeg) 630 (Calgary) 530 (Vancouver)

  1. #461
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Nothing wrong with FVV running the offence like he did with the bench last year - the bench offence was basically all off ball movement. So Fred would stand still dribbling the ball while Miles worked through screens to get open, and eventually the ball might swing to Wright to run a late PnR with Poeltl or to Siakam to attack off the dribble. That's fine. The problem has been him trying to run pick and roll and trying to attack the defence off of it. He can't find rollers, and he can't finish at the rim, and teams knowing that can contest his pull up jumpers too easily.

    I have however been saying that both the bench guards could use a pick and pop big because the pocket pass is easier and it could open some space on drives. Nice to see Fred find Ibaka a few times. But anyone watching would have seen that they mostly initiated the offence through Kawhi (certainly during the stretches where the offence was clicking) with Fred getting his best looks as spot ups. As it should be.
    Yeah, but the common element you're missing here isn't FVV moving off-ball full-time.... it's ball movement and more discipline/structure on offense. That (in addition to defensive effort) was a key narrative from the starters last night post-game - even from Kawhi. Ball movement is what has been missing and FVV dribbing nowhere to start possessions and Kawhi pounding the ball are just symptoms of lack of ball movement, resulting in lack of rhythm. No coincidence that when we finally moved the ball last night, we shot 44% from 3 against a top 3 defense in the NBA, that's very long and athletic. Shooters can get into a shooting rhythm when they know the ball could be coming back to them.

  2. #462
    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but the common element you're missing here isn't FVV moving off-ball full-time.... it's ball movement and more discipline/structure on offense. That (in addition to defensive effort) was a key narrative from the starters last night post-game - even from Kawhi. Ball movement is what has been missing and FVV dribbing nowhere to start possessions and Kawhi pounding the ball are just symptoms of lack of ball movement, resulting in lack of rhythm. No coincidence that when we finally moved the ball last night, we shot 44% from 3 against a top 3 defense in the NBA, that's very long and athletic. Shooters can get into a shooting rhythm when they know the ball could be coming back to them.
    Oh, I don't disagree with your point that the offense has been stagnant but I think it's very unfair to lay it all at FVV's feet. Sure, he sharea some of the responsibility but, again, he isn't an all-NBA caliber point guard. He's a solid back-up. Everyone should be accountable, of course, but it seems to me he's taken more than his fair share of the blame.

  3. #463
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Oh, I don't disagree with your point that the offense has been stagnant but I think it's very unfair to lay it all at FVV's feet. Sure, he sharea some of the responsibility but, again, he isn't an all-NBA caliber point guard. He's a solid back-up. Everyone should be accountable, of course, but it seems to me he's taken more than his fair share of the blame.
    You probably haven't been following the debate, but I haven't been laying it all at FVV's feet. I've been saying that Nurse has been giving FVV way too much freedom with the offense and that he needs more discipline, run more set plays and develop passing chemistry with his teammates, instead of trying to take guys off the dribble and create advantages (which he clearly can't do). My main issue with FVV is that he's clearly a replacement PG and a classic role player that needs Casey-like role cards, instead of being allowed to freelance and expose his obvious limitations. However, one thing I don't understand is why FVV can't develop better timing on the bounce pass with the roll man. When FVV starts the offense with the dribble drive attack that goes nowhere, I do feel like that sets the tone for whole offense.

  4. #464
    Raptors Republic Starter inthepaint's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I guess I don't quite understand why people are so down on FVV (or at least it seems that way). He's the exact same guy he was last year except he's not shooting it quite as good. Otherwise, there really isn't any difference. Defensively, he's smart, makes his rotations and can lock in on small guards. He has trouble against big guards from time to time. Duh. Offensively, teams are locked into him this year in a way they weren't last year, he's playing against tougher competition as the starting PG on a team everyone is out to beat, and he's being asked to take on the role of the team's best playmaker and second-best player.

    For fuck's sake, he's doing fine. Yeah, he's had more bad games than Lowry would have had but that's why he's a bench player and not one of the top 5 PGs in the league. I just don't quite understand what people expect. FVV isn't Lowry. I suppose I'm in the minority in thinking he's done just fine filling in until Kyle gets back.
    You got it. Fred is doing alright overall this season imo. Had his ups and downs and sometimes struggled a bit to run the pnr, but that's why he's Lowry's backup and not the other way around. When the offence doesn't look as fluid with FVV as opposed to Lowry, to me that speaks more to how good/important to this team Lowry is and not how "bad" FVV is. He's not Lowry. Fred is only 24, got some years ahead of him to fully master the running of an NBA offence but I think he's on the right track.

  5. #465
    Raptors Republic Superstar LJ2's Avatar
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    Just watched the full game on NBA TV. I know Pascal dropped 30pts in this one, but his basketball IQ is just low in comparison to the other good players on our team. He's getting by on mostly physical abilities and hustle right now...so much room to grow. His defense is awful at times.

  6. #466
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    Quote LJ2 wrote: View Post
    ...I know Pascal dropped 30pts in this one...His defense is awful at times.
    Could we say "his defense is pretty good but he still makes mistakes. Can't wait to see how fast he grows in defensive awareness."

    Has a nicer ring to it.

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