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Should we trade kawhi at the deadline?

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  • #31
    G__Deane wrote: View Post
    "The problem is we don't look like an actual title contending team"
    But that's THIS week. A few weeks ago we DID lol. Gotta chill and watch what deal Masai WILL do, minor or major
    It was a lot longer than that since they’ve looked like a contender. And Neither JV nor Lowrys back are the answer. I agree trading Kawhi isn’t a realistic idea, but this team is just average right now and a lot has to change in 30 games if they’re going to make any waves post season. I hope they don’t trade Pascal - he’s likely to be their top guy next year.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    • #32
      MixxAOR wrote: View Post
      I dont know how you plan to trade him for when he’s free agent in summer. 30 games left in a season. Be realistic.
      Because if we take Gallinari's contract back from the Clippers in the deal, that's ~$23M less in cap space they need to free up. It would mean they only have Kawhi's cap hold, Lou Will and a couple rookie contracts on their books going into the summer, freeing up room for another max deal and another high level player.

      We get SGA out of it who's going to be fucking good. Would also get the Cavs 2nd round pick this year and hopefully a 2022 Clippers 1st.

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      • #33
        jimmie wrote: View Post
        It was a lot longer than that since they’ve looked like a contender. And Neither JV nor Lowrys back are the answer. I agree trading Kawhi isn’t a realistic idea, but this team is just average right now and a lot has to change in 30 games if they’re going to make any waves post season. I hope they don’t trade Pascal - he’s likely to be their top guy next year.
        We're 17-12 in the last 29 games. We are not a title contender.

        We are neither top 5 in offense or defense. We have just a +5.0 netRTG (BREF) which is significantly worse than last year (+7.9) and way behind Milwaukee (+9.4) and Boston (+7.0), and Golden State (+6.9).

        If people don't want to read the writing on the wall that's up to them. We're not winning the title or likely even getting to the finals AND Kawhi is going to walk. It was a good gamble and risk to get him and land a top 5 player, but the regression from Lowry and our bench production means this still isn't a title contending team. We need to cut our losses and recoup as much value as possible for Kawhi UNLESS we can actually make a big addition prior to the deadline that makes the team a lot better (which I doubt).
        Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Sat Feb 2, 2019, 01:48 PM.

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        • #34
          Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
          We're 17-12 in the last 29 games. We are not a title contender.

          We are neither top 5 in offense or defense. We have just a +5.0 netRTG (BREF) which is significantly worse than last year (+7.9) and way behind Milwaukee (+9.4) and Boston (+7.0), and Golden State (+6.9).

          If people don't want to read the writing on the wall that's up to them. We're not winning the title or likely even getting to the finals AND Kawhi is going to walk. It was a good gamble and risk to get him and land a top 5 player, but the regression from Lowry and our bench production means this still isn't a title contending team. We need to cut our losses and recoup as much value as possible for Kawhi UNLESS we can actually make a big addition prior to the deadline that makes the team a lot better (which I doubt).
          14-9 since the GS game. And they haven't beaten a plus .500 team since Jan 6.

          https://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/s...806#post898806
          Mamba Mentality

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          • #35
            Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            Because if we take Gallinari's contract back from the Clippers in the deal, that's ~$23M less in cap space they need to free up. It would mean they only have Kawhi's cap hold, Lou Will and a couple rookie contracts on their books going into the summer, freeing up room for another max deal and another high level player.

            We get SGA out of it who's going to be fucking good. Would also get the Cavs 2nd round pick this year and hopefully a 2022 Clippers 1st.
            They are not giving us SGA. They are waiting for free agency. Because they are confident they can sign Kawhi then. They are not trading farm for him in middle of a season. Who are bidding against? Themselves?
            Last edited by MixxAOR; Sat Feb 2, 2019, 01:55 PM.
            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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            • #36
              Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
              We're 17-12 in the last 29 games. We are not a title contender.

              We are neither top 5 in offense or defense. We have just a +5.0 netRTG (BREF) which is significantly worse than last year (+7.9) and way behind Milwaukee (+9.4) and Boston (+7.0), and Golden State (+6.9).

              If people don't want to read the writing on the wall that's up to them. We're not winning the title or likely even getting to the finals AND Kawhi is going to walk. It was a good gamble and risk to get him and land a top 5 player, but the regression from Lowry and our bench production means this still isn't a title contending team. We need to cut our losses and recoup as much value as possible for Kawhi UNLESS we can actually make a big addition prior to the deadline that makes the team a lot better (which I doubt).
              It still doesn't mean you trade Kawhi at this point. Mid-season trade never was a possibility. You see it through the end for better or worse.
              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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              • #37
                MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                They are not giving us SGA. They are waiting for free agency. Because they are confident they can sign Kawhi then. They are not trading farm for him in middle of a season. Who are bidding against? Themselves?
                They aren't trading the fucking farm.

                They are getting Gallinari's $22M off the books while getting 30 games to sell Kawhi on the team AND the ability to offer him more money than anyone else. Additionally increases the likelihood of them performing well in the playoffs this year.

                They definitely give up SGA and a couple picks for that.

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                • #38
                  MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                  It still doesn't mean you trade Kawhi at this point. Mid-season trade never was a possibility. You see it through the end for better or worse.
                  No you don't. This is sunk cost fallacy. Just because we already invested to get him doesn't mean we just sit around and see something through that is not going to end well (2nd or 3rd round exit and Kawhi walking). You get value for him now and move on.

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                  • #39
                    Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    They aren't trading the fucking farm.

                    They are getting Gallinari's $22M off the books while getting 30 games to sell Kawhi on the team AND the ability to offer him more money than anyone else. Additionally increases the likelihood of them performing well in the playoffs this year.

                    They definitely give up SGA and a couple picks for that.
                    Yeah they are good. They wouldn't trade SGA for that. They'll just wait out. Why would they want to offer him more money? If he's going there in summer they will just sign him for less.
                    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                    • #40
                      Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      No you don't. This is sunk cost fallacy. Just because we already invested to get him doesn't mean we just sit around and see something through that is not going to end well (2nd or 3rd round exit and Kawhi walking). You get value for him now and move on.
                      No, it's not a sunk cost fallacy. You acquired him to see if you can get him to re-sign after a successful playoff run. Until you are 100% sure you aren't having that successful playoff run (and you can't honestly believe there is no chance of that), there's no reason to change course.

                      The "trade Kawhi mid-season" backup plan was for if he didn't report, or the team looked like a borderline playoff team and had absolutely no hope in the playoffs. Neither of those things have happened.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • #41
                        Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                        They aren't trading the fucking farm.

                        They are getting Gallinari's $22M off the books while getting 30 games to sell Kawhi on the team AND the ability to offer him more money than anyone else. Additionally increases the likelihood of them performing well in the playoffs this year.

                        They definitely give up SGA and a couple picks for that.
                        You need to relax when people disagree with you. Also, try and be a little more optimistic. You’ll be happier.

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                        • #42
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          No, it's not a sunk cost fallacy. You acquired him to see if you can get him to re-sign after a successful playoff run. Until you are 100% sure you aren't having that successful playoff run (and you can't honestly believe there is no chance of that), there's no reason to change course.

                          The "trade Kawhi mid-season" backup plan was for if he didn't report, or the team looked like a borderline playoff team and had absolutely no hope in the playoffs. Neither of those things have happened.
                          No it wasn't.

                          If there was any indication Kawhi wouldn't even report you don't even make the trade for him in the first place. The mid-season backup plan was for the case where we don't look like a title contender (every advanced metric says we don't) and he doesn't look like he's going to re-sign (no indication that he's going to, and no real incentive for him to anyway).

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                          • #43
                            Done with this. It's like arguing with a wall.
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • #44
                              Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                              No it wasn't.

                              If there was any indication Kawhi wouldn't even report you don't even make the trade for him in the first place. The mid-season backup plan was for the case where we don't look like a title contender (every advanced metric says we don't) and he doesn't look like he's going to re-sign (no indication that he's going to, and no real incentive for him to anyway).
                              No, trading for Kawhi to make that judgment call at mid-season would have been the most incredibly stupid thing Masai could do. The whole failing of this team over the past half decade has been regular season success not translating to the playoffs, so they made a move that said loud and clear "we do not give a flying crap about regular season success and this team will be judged on the playoffs alone".

                              Now, we are chugging along at the typical 50+ win pace, even with the various struggles stemming from a bunch of injuries (and an only-playoffs-matter approach of being very cautious with said injuries), and we should bail on the experiment before it has begun?

                              The only scenario Masai should even consider flipping Kawhi is if there is effectively a 0% chance this team outperforms the previous iterations in the playoffs. Personally, I think it would be incredibly foolish to believe that that is the case.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • #45
                                @ Shaolin.

                                Let's get some perspective here. A year ago the Cavs with Lebron were looking like complete dog-poop with Lebron on an expiring contract with no shot at getting to the Finals. And even with the .001% chance of making the Finals, nobody was giving them any chance of beating GS. I guess they should have traded Lebron mid-season, no?

                                Cavs barely scraped by the Pacers in round 1 and started to gel when they re-inserted TT into the starting lineup. In fact, the Cavs looked like they'd be an easy out right up until about Game 2 vs. your Toronto Raptors. This is sports, man. Teams go hot and cold. Some teams/players/coaches are built for the regular season and some are built for the playoffs.

                                I see your concern, but at least we know we've got 2 guys (Kawhi/Green) who have performed their best when the lights are brightest, which can hopefully overcome the 1 guy (Lowry) who seems to shrink. Giannis has never won a playoff round and Bud's system has been exposed in the playoffs before. Nurse is a total wild card, but hopefully the lack of cohesion we're seeing is because he's saving some tricks for the playoffs.

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