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Thread: Raps @ Knicks

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    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    I agree, Gasol should start. But the fit is bad, which is why I don't think it was a good trade.
    Ibaka hasn’t done anything not to start but we have to go through the process of Gasol after learning the system plays better then we switch it up

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    Raptors Republic Icon rocwell's Avatar
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    Kawhi will play. Gasol probable, he needs to complete paperwork

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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Kawhi will play. Gasol probable, he needs to complete paperwork
    Gasol will play 100% book it. Because I say so ...

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    Raptors Republic Veteran JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote consmap wrote: View Post
    Is Dan untouchable in the off season?
    The New Orleans message board wanted Dan in the Mirotic deal, that's why it didn't happen
    "Stop eating your sushi."
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    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Kawhi will play. Gasol probable, he needs to complete paperwork
    One thing I kinda like about the Gasol thing is that he would play with a broken leg. Might be something for one of our other guys to ponder.

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    Quote G__Deane wrote: View Post
    Gasol will play 100% book it. Because I say so ...
    Bookmarked.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    One thing I kinda like about the Gasol thing is that he would play with a broken leg. Might be something for one of our other guys to ponder.
    Gasol has missed an average of 16 games per year over the previous three years, but okay.

    For reference, even including this injury-ridden year, Kyle Lowry has played seven more games than Gasol over the past four years.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer DanH's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    But the most likely reason for that struggle is Lowry being injured and/or mentally checked out, combined with Fred being less than 100% when he starts. This is, IMO, the core issue.
    Again, Fred being less than 100% is irrelevant because I'm not looking at the starters performance with Fred. I'm looking at the starters (Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam, Serge and only that unit) performance.

    It was very good early in the season. When it was very good, the JV version was dramatically better. Then it was OK (for a stretch before Lowry got hurt), and the JV version was good (ie far better than the Serge version). Then Lowry and JV got hurt, eventually Lowry came back, and it's been bad since. All of those samples are pretty sizeable ones.

    So. We can pin all the struggles on Lowry. We can. But to do so ignores that it's been a constant downward trend since Lowry's insane shooting dropped off like 10 games into the season, and that at every stage where a JV alternative was available, that alternative performed better than the Serge unit. Why, given that, are we all excited about how the Serge unit has performed, to the extent that we may not be willing to start Marc Gasol for fear of losing the incredible value of starting Serge Ibaka?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer DanH's Avatar
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    Quote Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
    Yup. Moreover I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Serge should start because the starters as a unit are playing so well together. The observation is that Serge has been playing very well as a C especially in comparison to last year and it will be interesting how Nurse manages minutes.

    To be clear I think Gasol should start. But people are talking about it because Serge is playing better than last year not because they ran advanced lineup stats on NBA.com
    The only reason I brought any of this up is because of a trade piece from Lowe that suggested that the starting unit with Ibaka has been so good (not Ibaka, the lineup with Ibaka) that he questioned what they would do with Gasol.

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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Kawhi will play. Gasol probable, he needs to complete paperwork
    U sure Kawhi will definitely play? The status shows heís questionable for the game


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I wonder how many fans of different teams look at the schedule and go "Alright. We're playing the Knicks tomorrow night. They are sooo trash. Mark this down as a win."

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    Raptors Republic Veteran slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Gasol has missed an average of 16 games per year over the previous three years, but okay.

    For reference, even including this injury-ridden year, Kyle Lowry has played seven more games than Gasol over the past four years.
    Wasnít talking about Lowry. Wasnít talking about games missed to injury either. Perhaps I was being too obtuse so I will be more blunt. Kawhi Leonard should take note that superstar players show up to play even when they donít feel like it. He needs to play games and lead. Not sit in the weight room cause heís tired.

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    Quote Frank M. wrote: View Post
    U sure Kawhi will definitely play? The status shows he’s questionable for the game


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Nope. Nothing has been confirmed. But I will speak it into fact; he's playing

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    Raptors Republic Veteran JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    It was very good early in the season. When it was very good, the JV version was dramatically better. Then it was OK (for a stretch before Lowry got hurt), and the JV version was good (ie far better than the Serge version). Then Lowry and JV got hurt, eventually Lowry came back, and it's been bad since. All of those samples are pretty sizeable ones.

    So. We can pin all the struggles on Lowry. We can. But to do so ignores that it's been a constant downward trend since Lowry's insane shooting dropped off like 10 games into the season, and that at every stage where a JV alternative was available, that alternative performed better than the Serge unit. Why, given that, are we all excited about how the Serge unit has performed, to the extent that we may not be willing to start Marc Gasol for fear of losing the incredible value of starting Serge Ibaka?
    I just don't concede that those 'Starters with Ibaka vs. JV' numbers give decent insight into Ibaka's play and impact. The sample size is too small, to say nothing of the fact that we aren't controlling for the strength of the opponent in each scenario (dollars to donuts says the 'Starter with JV' set was playing weaker competition, given where we are in the modern NBA).
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer DanH's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    I just don't concede that those 'Starters with Ibaka vs. JV' numbers give decent insight into Ibaka's play and impact. The sample size is too small, to say nothing of the fact that we aren't controlling for the strength of the opponent in each scenario (dollars to donuts says the 'Starter with JV' set was playing weaker competition, given where we are in the modern NBA).
    Could be! On the season the Serge starters are 8 points worse offensively and 8 points worse defensively than the JV lineup. Is your position that the difference in strength between their competition is 16 points per 100 possessions? More than that, I presume, if the position is that the Serge lineup has been so effective as to make a team hesitate to start Marc freaking Gasol after making a trade for him to take them over the top. 16 points per 100 possessions is a dramatic swing in quality of competition.

    If you attribute all the offensive struggles to Lowry (which would be wrong but let's go with it), where does the defensive difference come from? I guess we are to accept that Serge faced offences that were on average about 10 points per 100 possessions better than the ones JV faced? At least. Right?

    I just want to be clear what the parameters are for the context you are seeking in comparing these numbers. The above differences are your expectation? Because I don't see much point in chasing down an answer to that if there will simply be another reason thrown out there after inevitably those thresholds above are not met.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post

    Don’t count on Gasol starting if it depends on Memphis paperwork. This is the team that tried to trade “a guy named Brooks”

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    Raptors Republic Icon rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Don’t count on Gasol starting if it depends on Memphis paperwork. This is the team that tried to trade “a guy named Brooks”
    Jonas just arrived in Memphis, deal will go through after physical

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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Could be! On the season the Serge starters are 8 points worse offensively and 8 points worse defensively than the JV lineup. Is your position that the difference in strength between their competition is 16 points per 100 possessions? More than that, I presume, if the position is that the Serge lineup has been so effective as to make a team hesitate to start Marc freaking Gasol after making a trade for him to take them over the top. 16 points per 100 possessions is a dramatic swing in quality of competition.

    If you attribute all the offensive struggles to Lowry (which would be wrong but let's go with it), where does the defensive difference come from? I guess we are to accept that Serge faced offences that were on average about 10 points per 100 possessions better than the ones JV faced? At least. Right?

    I just want to be clear what the parameters are for the context you are seeking in comparing these numbers. The above differences are your expectation? Because I don't see much point in chasing down an answer to that if there will simply be another reason thrown out there after inevitably those thresholds above are not met.
    I think he said Gasol should start.

    I’m not going to spend much time looking it up but to your question about strength of schedule JV’s highest minutes per game this season were against Detroit, Atlanta, Brooklyn and Phoenix. He played very little against the best offences in the NBA—Golden State, Milwaukee, NOP, and Philly. (With the exception of the wonderful game he dominated Philly). He also played little against Boston or Denver.

    So that probably has something to do with the defensive difference. But again I’d say it really doesn’t matter because:
    —He said Gasol should start.
    —JV doesn’t play for the raptors anymore.

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