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  • #76

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    • #77
      JimiCliff wrote: View Post
      I just don't concede that those 'Starters with Ibaka vs. JV' numbers give decent insight into Ibaka's play and impact. The sample size is too small, to say nothing of the fact that we aren't controlling for the strength of the opponent in each scenario (dollars to donuts says the 'Starter with JV' set was playing weaker competition, given where we are in the modern NBA).
      Could be! On the season the Serge starters are 8 points worse offensively and 8 points worse defensively than the JV lineup. Is your position that the difference in strength between their competition is 16 points per 100 possessions? More than that, I presume, if the position is that the Serge lineup has been so effective as to make a team hesitate to start Marc freaking Gasol after making a trade for him to take them over the top. 16 points per 100 possessions is a dramatic swing in quality of competition.

      If you attribute all the offensive struggles to Lowry (which would be wrong but let's go with it), where does the defensive difference come from? I guess we are to accept that Serge faced offences that were on average about 10 points per 100 possessions better than the ones JV faced? At least. Right?

      I just want to be clear what the parameters are for the context you are seeking in comparing these numbers. The above differences are your expectation? Because I don't see much point in chasing down an answer to that if there will simply be another reason thrown out there after inevitably those thresholds above are not met.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • #78
        rocwell wrote: View Post

        Don’t count on Gasol starting if it depends on Memphis paperwork. This is the team that tried to trade “a guy named Brooks”

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        • #79
          Jclaw wrote: View Post
          Don’t count on Gasol starting if it depends on Memphis paperwork. This is the team that tried to trade “a guy named Brooks”
          Jonas just arrived in Memphis, deal will go through after physical

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          • #80
            DanH wrote: View Post
            Could be! On the season the Serge starters are 8 points worse offensively and 8 points worse defensively than the JV lineup. Is your position that the difference in strength between their competition is 16 points per 100 possessions? More than that, I presume, if the position is that the Serge lineup has been so effective as to make a team hesitate to start Marc freaking Gasol after making a trade for him to take them over the top. 16 points per 100 possessions is a dramatic swing in quality of competition.

            If you attribute all the offensive struggles to Lowry (which would be wrong but let's go with it), where does the defensive difference come from? I guess we are to accept that Serge faced offences that were on average about 10 points per 100 possessions better than the ones JV faced? At least. Right?

            I just want to be clear what the parameters are for the context you are seeking in comparing these numbers. The above differences are your expectation? Because I don't see much point in chasing down an answer to that if there will simply be another reason thrown out there after inevitably those thresholds above are not met.
            I think he said Gasol should start.

            I’m not going to spend much time looking it up but to your question about strength of schedule JV’s highest minutes per game this season were against Detroit, Atlanta, Brooklyn and Phoenix. He played very little against the best offences in the NBA—Golden State, Milwaukee, NOP, and Philly. (With the exception of the wonderful game he dominated Philly). He also played little against Boston or Denver.

            So that probably has something to do with the defensive difference. But again I’d say it really doesn’t matter because:
            —He said Gasol should start.
            —JV doesn’t play for the raptors anymore.

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            • #81
              DanH wrote: View Post
              I just want to be clear what the parameters are for the context you are seeking in comparing these numbers. The above differences are your expectation?
              I don't have an expectation. I think those numbers are going to be crazy noisy when you factor in the injuries, Kawhi joining the team, Kawhi sitting consistently, Nurse being a rookie head coach, JV having a much lighter workload than Ibaka, the aforementioned possible difference in the types/strength of opponent each was used against, and the small sample size we're drawing from.
              "Stop eating your sushi."
              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
              - Jack Armstrong

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              • #82

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                • #83
                  GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                  ^^He's staying.

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                  • #84
                    GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                    I'm sad :|
                    OG is our king

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                    • #85
                      slaw wrote: View Post
                      Wasn’t talking about Lowry. Wasn’t talking about games missed to injury either. Perhaps I was being too obtuse so I will be more blunt. Kawhi Leonard should take note that superstar players show up to play even when they don’t feel like it. He needs to play games and lead. Not sit in the weight room cause he’s tired.
                      I mentioned in another thread how Giannis and Middleton have missed or sat out only three games each so far this season. No wonder their team is playing so well. If our main guys are so fragile they can't play even non-back to back games, frankly this team has a much bigger problem than who is the starting C.

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                      • #86
                        Zak24gege wrote: View Post
                        I mentioned in another thread how Giannis and Middleton have missed or sat out only three games each so far this season. No wonder their team is playing so well. If our main guys are so fragile they can't play even non-back to back games, frankly this team has a much bigger problem than who is the starting C.
                        We have a .714 win % 2 games back. We're coasting while keeping up.

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                        • #87
                          GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                          Does this mean Kawhi gets 3 games off for the loss of JV?

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                          • #88
                            consmap wrote: View Post
                            I'm sad :|
                            Me too but this was a necessary move.

                            JV took everything in strive & owned up to his mistakes. You can't ask for a better person to be a part of your organization.

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                            • #89










                              Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                              • #90
                                DanH wrote: View Post
                                The only reason I brought any of this up is because of a trade piece from Lowe that suggested that the starting unit with Ibaka has been so good (not Ibaka, the lineup with Ibaka) that he questioned what they would do with Gasol.
                                Well, I don't think anyone here is really questioning that Gasol should start. What's happening is, it looks like Zach Lowe did, and in an effort to counter that point here on this board, you went as far as saying Ibaka hasn't improved significantly from last season, and that the starters haven't been very effective with him anyway (for reasons beyond/more significant than injuries). I think that's where you're seeing the disagreement from several posters.

                                Gasol should start at C because he is the better C, regardless of how much Ibaka has improved and how well the team has done with or without Serge. I don't think anyone here is questioning that. But that doesn't negate the fact the Ibaka is having an excellent season as C (compared to last year), and that the starters have done well (albeit not perfect) with him there, the main problem being injuries (especially to Lowry, that Serge benefits so much from when he's on the floor and doing well)

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