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  • golden wrote: View Post
    Well somebody (i.e. Masai) messed up big time, because they signed FVV to a backup PG, but you're saying that Fred is really a 5'10" JJ Redick.
    Yep. He's not good enough.

    One thing I hate about Masai is how he constantly seems to fuck up and overpay his role players. It's a real issue because you end up with a lot of bad money on the books. Prior to the trade deadline we had nearly 30M tied up in Miles, FVV and Powell. Three players who barely impact our ability to win games.

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      Well somebody (i.e. Masai) messed up big time, because they signed FVV to a backup PG, but you're saying that Fred is really a 5'10" JJ Redick.
      Probably Bobby, MU doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't even have a backspace or delete on his keyboard. Every Key just says WIN.

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      • Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
        Probably Bobby, MU doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't even have a backspace or delete on his keyboard. Every Key just says WIN.
        Term and contract extensions and free agent signings have actually been the one SLIGHT weakness in masais management. His trading is A++ and drafting A+ but I'd give his contract work a C
        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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        • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
          Yep. He's not good enough.

          One thing I hate about Masai is how he constantly seems to fuck up and overpay his role players. It's a real issue because you end up with a lot of bad money on the books. Prior to the trade deadline we had nearly 30M tied up in Miles, FVV and Powell. Three players who barely impact our ability to win games.
          Is that related to trying to get American players to play here?

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            Well somebody (i.e. Masai) messed up big time, because they signed FVV to a backup PG, but you're saying that Fred is really a 5'10" JJ Redick.
            This is such a silly stance. We've been over this before. Fred was signed because he was awesome at what he did last year. He was signed to continue to do what he did last year. He hasn't been used that way enough this year, so he's struggled. Which is why this is a good move, because it appears to slot him back into that role (which he's been sliding back toward as the season has gone on anyway).

            Yes, Masai signed a 6 foot SG. That's not a screw-up, it's the player he wanted to sign, and he was right to want that.

            Why would you assume that Masai signed FVV to be backup PG when our backup PG from last year (Wright) was still on the roster, and immediately upon trading that backup PG Masai went and signed another one?
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • The bigger contracts are also necessary for Masai to complete bigger trades. He needs to match salary with somewhat good value so all these young guys being slightly overpaid isn’t a terrible thing.

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              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                Yep. He's not good enough.

                One thing I hate about Masai is how he constantly seems to fuck up and overpay his role players. It's a real issue because you end up with a lot of bad money on the books. Prior to the trade deadline we had nearly 30M tied up in Miles, FVV and Powell. Three players who barely impact our ability to win games.
                In fairness.. these types of contracts are helpful in that they can usually be used to get a trade done for a better target. I mean if we didn't have CJ on the roster and his $8M we probably don't get Marc.

                The key is to make sure they are small term deals. 2 years instead of 3. Team options instead of player options, etc.

                I never liked that 4th year on Norm or that 3rd year on CJ. But Toronto also has an issue locking guys down, so even though Masai feels like we should "believe in the city".. some of that is hyperbole. We're still not an A-1 destination for most of the NBA.

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                • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                  Is that related to trying to get American players to play here?
                  With Miles, it was to address shooting issues. If we get regular season Miles from last year - that's a fair market value contract. For FVV and Powell the 'overpaying role players' criticism is somewhat justified - I think it comes from Masai signing underdog type players and then seeing a huge improvement in the contract year and then assuming that trajectory into the future and possibly overpaying for that. Where in the case of Powell and FVV, they actually take a step back to being who people thought they were when they were underdogs.

                  That said, Masai got a lot smarter after the JV, Ross & Powell extensions, with Wright (no extension) and FVV (only a 2 year contract). Massive expiring contracts next year, which has become useful trade currency once again.

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                  • DanH wrote: View Post
                    This is such a silly stance. We've been over this before. Fred was signed because he was awesome at what he did last year. He was signed to continue to do what he did last year. He hasn't been used that way enough this year, so he's struggled. Which is why this is a good move, because it appears to slot him back into that role (which he's been sliding back toward as the season has gone on anyway).

                    Yes, Masai signed a 6 foot SG. That's not a screw-up, it's the player he wanted to sign, and he was right to want that.

                    Why would you assume that Masai signed FVV to be backup PG when our backup PG from last year (Wright) was still on the roster, and immediately upon trading that backup PG Masai went and signed another one?
                    Because numerous interviews, quotes, etc... from FVV & Nurse have indicated that FVV is the backup PG and is being groomed to eventually take over Lowry's starting job. And we signed Lin because you need 3 PGs in this league (Jordon Loyd doesn't count, btw) and Lin was the best guy on the market at a ridiculously low price.

                    Why would you assume that FVV was signed to be the backup SG when there is no evidence of that in writing, other than last year's bench mob success, which FVV and Nurse themselves have said "is dead". It looks more like they're force fitting FVV into roles to extract what limited value they can out of him. I could easily see him being traded in the off-season.

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                    • Offense aside. FVV's defense is trash this year. That's mostly on him.
                      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                      • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                        Offense aside. FVV's defense is trash this year. That's mostly on him.
                        His defense has been offensive at times.

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                        • Amazing get by Masai. I really liked Lin’s enthusiasm to sign with the Raptors.

                          It is a very timely signing especially with our back up PG injured.

                          We are getting a very decent player who can step in to a role that requires instant contribution and is no slouch in games that mattered.

                          I dont mind Fred staying out a little longer, maybe this lengthy time off would allow him to cure whatever is ailing him aside from that thumb. He has regressed significantly this season and has affected the flow of the offense. He had some good moments in spurts but overall, he was totally out of sync.
                          Maybe when he comes back, he can be that 2010-2011 JJ Barea who was intrumental to the Mavs stretch run to the Championship.

                          Now Nurse can play a much taller PG with good range and can drive the ball to the basket with much better success.

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                          • Maury wrote: View Post
                            The bigger contracts are also necessary for Masai to complete bigger trades. He needs to match salary with somewhat good value so all these young guys being slightly overpaid isn’t a terrible thing.
                            That's true. The other thing to is, yes you need top end guys to win a chip, but you also need good role players. Lebron, Davis and even Harden this year are not exactly likely to make the finals, it's still a team sport. That said, good role players are not nearly as rare as guys that can literally carry you to the finals, so they don't need to be overpaid. Need to find a balance between having good quality guys that will help your top end talent win, having flexible pieces for salary matching on trades, and keeping the overall salary under control so you're not under a chronic cap crunch all the time.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post
                              Because numerous interviews, quotes, etc... from FVV & Nurse have indicated that FVV is the backup PG and is being groomed to eventually take over Lowry's starting job. And we signed Lin because you need 3 PGs in this league (Jordon Loyd doesn't count, btw) and Lin was the best guy on the market at a ridiculously low price.

                              Why would you assume that FVV was signed to be the backup SG when there is no evidence of that in writing, other than last year's bench mob success, which FVV and Nurse themselves have said "is dead". It looks more like they're force fitting FVV into roles to extract what limited value they can out of him. I could easily see him being traded in the off-season.
                              So, wait, did we sign Lin to replace FVV as backup PG or did we sign Lin to sit on the bench as third string PG? Both of those things would be pretty dumb. As compared to signing Lin to play backup PG and allow FVV to slide back into his more natural role, which actually makes some semblance of sense.

                              They are definitely force-fitting FVV into a different role. They appear to be trying to stretch FVV's game, see if he can handle taking on more offence creation. It's always good to try to expand guys' skill sets. Heck, they've had Green and OG both handle the ball more than they should in the same effort. But they aren't forcing him into that role to maximize the return on his deal - the obvious way to maximize the return on his deal is to have him play the role he is best suited to play.

                              Obviously you could see FVV being traded in the off-season. He's not a star, he's not a core piece. He's a valuable role player, and is paid as such. Of course he might be traded.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                                Yep. He's not good enough.

                                One thing I hate about Masai is how he constantly seems to fuck up and overpay his role players. It's a real issue because you end up with a lot of bad money on the books. Prior to the trade deadline we had nearly 30M tied up in Miles, FVV and Powell. Three players who barely impact our ability to win games.
                                I wonder how many other fans of how many other teams (20? 25?) would love to have a GM who "constantly seems to fuck up" like Masai does.

                                Raptor fandom is special... or at least certain members of it.

                                I guess if the Raptors make it to the NBA finals, and then lose, we can put it down to Masai constantly overpaying role players.

                                And all this in the first year of the Raptors existence in which quality veterans are excited about coming to Toronto, are naming Toronto as a desired destination and are arranging waiver details so they can get there.

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