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  • I still think its hilarious that there are 2 Warriors in the top 5.
    Mamba Mentality

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    • 007 wrote: View Post
      Fun fact: DeMar is now shooting 38% from three, which is third on the team behind Miles and Lowry (both 39%)
      Yes, but you know why people are noticing his improvement in three, because he scores when you are in a need. Yesterday, he had a back to back threes during the Cavs run. Other than that, you are totally right.

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      • planetmars wrote: View Post
        Does he deserve to be in the MVP race ?
        Yes
        Does he deserve to be an MVP?
        To a great deal of extent, yes.

        Will he get the MVP ?
        No way. This league is bullshit. Remember When this league passed Hakeem in the MVP and gave it to the Admiral ?
        This league is a business league, they just promote business and nothing else.

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        • For me personally, barring Houston having a crazy 2nd half I think the MVP should go to the top producer on whoever finishes first in the east. I don't believe in any of those Warriors players getting MVP simply because of how stacked the team overall is.

          That means MVP this year (for me personally anyway) is between Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan.

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          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
            For me personally, barring Houston having a crazy 2nd half I think the MVP should go to the top producer on whoever finishes first in the east. I don't believe in any of those Warriors players getting MVP simply because of how stacked the team overall is.

            That means MVP this year (for me personally anyway) is between Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan.
            How valuable can a superstar be on a team with three superstars? Good point.

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            • Unless Harden is out a while I see the voting going something like this:
              1. Harden
              2. LeBron
              3. Kyrie (purely because voters love raw wins)
              4. KD/Curry splitting votes

              If we finish with the top seed in the east with DeMar continuing to play at this level, I think he should win, and would have an okay chance. But voters are getting more sophisticated, and I could see the defensive advanced stats hurting DeMar. Of the MVP candidates, in terms of total RPM, they are ranked like this

              1. Curry
              2. Harden
              4. Westbrook
              7. LeBron
              8. Giannis
              25. KD
              27. Irving (behind Horford at 17)
              34. DeMar (behind Kyle at 19)

              I don't think RPM is a be-all/end-all stat but I do think it tells an easily digestible story for media members who will use it to confirm their biases.

              Either way I am just glad he legitimately feels like part of the conversation. Because of the question marks around other players he feels like an even greater possibility than when Kyle was in the mix over the past few years.

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              • I don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.

                Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.

                Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball).
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • S.R. wrote: View Post
                  I don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.

                  Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.

                  Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball).
                  There really should be a most valuable and a most outstanding player award. Like, kevin durant may be the best player or the most outstanding. Hell curry may be. But neither should be considered most valuable to their team.

                  Like, when steve nash won. He was so freaking valuable to the suns and their style and roster makeup. Was he a pure better player than shaq in 04? Or lebron in 05? I don't think so. But he deserved those trophies because he brought the suns wins with doing what he needed to do.

                  Also derozan is great but harden/lebron are ahead
                  Last edited by KeonClark; Sat Jan 13, 2018, 01:16 AM.
                  9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                  • S.R. wrote: View Post
                    I don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.

                    Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.

                    Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball).
                    There's a significant difference between Jordan-Pippen and Durant-Curry imo. Pippen's career high TS% was 56.1%. Over the past four years Curry's averaged almost 65%TS on high volume, and Durant's put up 64%TS.

                    We are never going to fully know what the maximum potential of either player is, because having one another on the team makes the game so much easier for each other. Having Pippen around helped Jordan for sure, but Jordan was still carrying the team offensively.

                    That said, LeBron did win two MVPs with the Heatles. But I think at that point it was clearly his team, and he had almost double the win shares of DWade. It's much more muddy with the Warriors, as it's hard to tell who's the alpha on the Warriors. Steph seems to have the better statistical contributions but it doesn't feel like it's his team anymore.

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                    • One neat thing that's been fun to follow along this year with DeMar is his move up the career scoring leaderboard. Now that he's cracked the top 250 in career NBA/ABA scoring (currently 231st), he's started to pass some pretty memorable names. Recently he's passed:

                      Charles Oakley
                      Danny Manning
                      Mo Cheeks
                      Tommy Heinsohn

                      And is coming up on:
                      Mark Jackson
                      Nick Van Exel
                      Bill Sharman
                      Rik Smits
                      Derrick Coleman

                      Next year could be really fun as he could potentially pass:
                      Dave Cowens
                      Bill Laimbeer
                      Alonzo Mourning
                      Nate Thurmond
                      Bill Russell

                      And break into the top 150. Knock on wood he keeps up his durability and proficiency.

                      Comment


                      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                        One neat thing that's been fun to follow along this year with DeMar is his move up the career scoring leaderboard. Now that he's cracked the top 250 in career NBA/ABA scoring (currently 231st), he's started to pass some pretty memorable names. Recently he's passed:

                        Charles Oakley
                        Danny Manning
                        Mo Cheeks
                        Tommy Heinsohn

                        And is coming up on:
                        Mark Jackson
                        Nick Van Exel
                        Bill Sharman
                        Rik Smits
                        Derrick Coleman

                        Next year could be really fun as he could potentially pass:
                        Dave Cowens
                        Bill Laimbeer
                        Alonzo Mourning
                        Nate Thurmond
                        Bill Russell

                        And break into the top 150. Knock on wood he keeps up his durability and proficiency.
                        I wonder how many more years he sees himself playing? He could add another 4500 points to his total in the next 3 years pretty easily, I would think.. That could move him up to around 27000 points. Ahead of Tim Duncan, Hakeem, and Oscar Robertson. Pretty heady company.

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                        • MVP for me isn't about the best player. The way I look at it is, if I take a guy off an outstanding team, what happens to that team? How much is that player driving the success of that team?

                          That's why I can't give it to Curry or Durant. You take either of them off that's still what, a 60+ win team? Maybe a little lower if you take away Curry than if you take away Durant but the point remains.

                          Now to be fair I say this but I'm not sure what would happen to the Celtics or Raptors if Kyrie/DD weren't there. I think they'd be worse but not sure by how much.

                          Actually I think I just made a pretty good argument for LeBron or Harden to be MVP, because I think the Cavs would be sub .500 without LBJ there, and Houston wouldn't be very good without Harden either.

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                          • Demar is having a great year, but I think Harden needs to win it. He was robbed last year by the Russell Westbrook Vanity Project.

                            Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                            • That guy Chris Paul is pretty good though.. might even be better than Lowry this year. If Cleveland didn't have Lebron would they make the playoffs? I'm pretty sure Houston would without Harden.

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                              • I agree re: "best player" vs "most important to his team," though that very distinction drives a lot of the MVP chatter so I doubt they change it.

                                I'll always lean towards trying to figure out who the best player in the league is that year, e.g. if at the end of the season 30 GM's could run a draft to replay that year only, which guy would most likely be picked #1? That's my MVP.

                                That Durant joined Curry, who was a 2x time MVP, a champion, and the leader of a 73 win team, and Durant is arguably the best player on that team right now, I think that says a lot about how good prime KD is.

                                With Harden missing some time and the Cavs slipping, the MVP race is certainly getting more interesting.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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