I still think its hilarious that there are 2 Warriors in the top 5.
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007 wrote: View PostFun fact: DeMar is now shooting 38% from three, which is third on the team behind Miles and Lowry (both 39%)
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planetmars wrote: View PostHe's now 5th on the MVP ladder:
http://global.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-l...bacom:homepage
Yes
Does he deserve to be an MVP?
To a great deal of extent, yes.
Will he get the MVP ?
No way. This league is bullshit. Remember When this league passed Hakeem in the MVP and gave it to the Admiral ?
This league is a business league, they just promote business and nothing else.
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For me personally, barring Houston having a crazy 2nd half I think the MVP should go to the top producer on whoever finishes first in the east. I don't believe in any of those Warriors players getting MVP simply because of how stacked the team overall is.
That means MVP this year (for me personally anyway) is between Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan.
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Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View PostFor me personally, barring Houston having a crazy 2nd half I think the MVP should go to the top producer on whoever finishes first in the east. I don't believe in any of those Warriors players getting MVP simply because of how stacked the team overall is.
That means MVP this year (for me personally anyway) is between Kyrie Irving and DeMar DeRozan.
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Unless Harden is out a while I see the voting going something like this:
1. Harden
2. LeBron
3. Kyrie (purely because voters love raw wins)
4. KD/Curry splitting votes
If we finish with the top seed in the east with DeMar continuing to play at this level, I think he should win, and would have an okay chance. But voters are getting more sophisticated, and I could see the defensive advanced stats hurting DeMar. Of the MVP candidates, in terms of total RPM, they are ranked like this
1. Curry
2. Harden
4. Westbrook
7. LeBron
8. Giannis
25. KD
27. Irving (behind Horford at 17)
34. DeMar (behind Kyle at 19)
I don't think RPM is a be-all/end-all stat but I do think it tells an easily digestible story for media members who will use it to confirm their biases.
Either way I am just glad he legitimately feels like part of the conversation. Because of the question marks around other players he feels like an even greater possibility than when Kyle was in the mix over the past few years.
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I don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.
Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.
Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball)."We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard
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S.R. wrote: View PostI don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.
Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.
Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball).
Like, when steve nash won. He was so freaking valuable to the suns and their style and roster makeup. Was he a pure better player than shaq in 04? Or lebron in 05? I don't think so. But he deserved those trophies because he brought the suns wins with doing what he needed to do.
Also derozan is great but harden/lebron are aheadLast edited by KeonClark; Sat Jan 13, 2018, 01:16 AM.9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum
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S.R. wrote: View PostI don't like the assumption that a great player with a weaker supporting cast should have a better shot at the MVP than a great player on a great team. The guy on the weaker team stuffs the boxscore, which does make it a tough call, defining who's the more valuable player that year.
Durant and Curry are both MVP calibre players in their primes, whether on the same team or not.
Pippen used to get MVP votes while playing with MJ (he did get a lot more when MJ played baseball).
We are never going to fully know what the maximum potential of either player is, because having one another on the team makes the game so much easier for each other. Having Pippen around helped Jordan for sure, but Jordan was still carrying the team offensively.
That said, LeBron did win two MVPs with the Heatles. But I think at that point it was clearly his team, and he had almost double the win shares of DWade. It's much more muddy with the Warriors, as it's hard to tell who's the alpha on the Warriors. Steph seems to have the better statistical contributions but it doesn't feel like it's his team anymore.
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One neat thing that's been fun to follow along this year with DeMar is his move up the career scoring leaderboard. Now that he's cracked the top 250 in career NBA/ABA scoring (currently 231st), he's started to pass some pretty memorable names. Recently he's passed:
Charles Oakley
Danny Manning
Mo Cheeks
Tommy Heinsohn
And is coming up on:
Mark Jackson
Nick Van Exel
Bill Sharman
Rik Smits
Derrick Coleman
Next year could be really fun as he could potentially pass:
Dave Cowens
Bill Laimbeer
Alonzo Mourning
Nate Thurmond
Bill Russell
And break into the top 150. Knock on wood he keeps up his durability and proficiency.
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Scraptor wrote: View PostOne neat thing that's been fun to follow along this year with DeMar is his move up the career scoring leaderboard. Now that he's cracked the top 250 in career NBA/ABA scoring (currently 231st), he's started to pass some pretty memorable names. Recently he's passed:
Charles Oakley
Danny Manning
Mo Cheeks
Tommy Heinsohn
And is coming up on:
Mark Jackson
Nick Van Exel
Bill Sharman
Rik Smits
Derrick Coleman
Next year could be really fun as he could potentially pass:
Dave Cowens
Bill Laimbeer
Alonzo Mourning
Nate Thurmond
Bill Russell
And break into the top 150. Knock on wood he keeps up his durability and proficiency.
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MVP for me isn't about the best player. The way I look at it is, if I take a guy off an outstanding team, what happens to that team? How much is that player driving the success of that team?
That's why I can't give it to Curry or Durant. You take either of them off that's still what, a 60+ win team? Maybe a little lower if you take away Curry than if you take away Durant but the point remains.
Now to be fair I say this but I'm not sure what would happen to the Celtics or Raptors if Kyrie/DD weren't there. I think they'd be worse but not sure by how much.
Actually I think I just made a pretty good argument for LeBron or Harden to be MVP, because I think the Cavs would be sub .500 without LBJ there, and Houston wouldn't be very good without Harden either.
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I agree re: "best player" vs "most important to his team," though that very distinction drives a lot of the MVP chatter so I doubt they change it.
I'll always lean towards trying to figure out who the best player in the league is that year, e.g. if at the end of the season 30 GM's could run a draft to replay that year only, which guy would most likely be picked #1? That's my MVP.
That Durant joined Curry, who was a 2x time MVP, a champion, and the leader of a 73 win team, and Durant is arguably the best player on that team right now, I think that says a lot about how good prime KD is.
With Harden missing some time and the Cavs slipping, the MVP race is certainly getting more interesting."We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard
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