Everything Derozan

[Snooch]

But but....weren't we supposed to see this when Demar got injured?

That was the thought, but the system never changed to accomadate the change in players.

Of course that is not overly reasonable part way throuogh a season for who nows how many games, instead Lowrys role jsut got bigger.

And of course Ross and GV got more minutes in stead of Demar, who neither carries the same skill set as demar, so naturally they weren't going to perform as well in a system built for Demar.

But just the same

In all games Demar player
PPG scored Average - 103
PPG allowed average - 100

Record 37-24
.606 win %

Without Demar
PPG average 106
PPG Allowed 103

Record 12-9
.57 win %

and that was 12 games on the road...CavsX2, GS, Bulls, Clippers, Blazers.

I think they did admirably without Demar, especially considering how after that opening 13 games to the season when every single thing went perfectly(I don't think anyone though the Raps would ever maintain that win rate) the win rate with Demar was .541%

[Snooch]

Actually expiring contracts have great value, believe it or not. They're considered trading assets.

Also, Kevin Durant's contract is expiring, does that make his trading value go down? I didn't think so.

difference IMO between an expiring contract and a Player like Demar.

And with the cap going up, expiring contracts I would think that Expirings are loosing value as trade assets.

[mcHAPPY]

Actually expiring contracts have great value, believe it or not. They're considered trading assets.

Also, Kevin Durant's contract is expiring, does that make his trading value go down? I didn't think so.

There was a time when expiring contracts held tremendous value as there was also a time when players could be signed for 7 years.


Superstar elite players are always going to be incredibly valuable.


Bringing KD in to a discussion about DeRozan is beyond silly. Chalk and cheese.

[BS10]

There was a time when expiring contracts held tremendous value as there was also a time when players could be signed for 7 years.


Superstar elite players are always going to be incredibly valuable.


Bringing KD in to a discussion about DeRozan is beyond silly. Chalk and cheese.

Lol, I was proving a point and not comparing the two players. The point, if you missed it, was that player's values don't go down just because they're in the final year of their contracts before entering free agency. I don't think Derozan's value is going down just because he's entering his major contract year.

[Snooch]

Lol, I was proving a point and not comparing the two players. The point, if you missed it, was that player's values don't go down just because they're in the final year of their contracts before entering free agency. I don't think Derozan's value is going down just because he's entering his major contract year.

I dont think its going to go up.

Its all opinion anyways, but still.

I would think that some smaller market teams would offer far more for Demar if they had him either 1) for longer than a few months or 2) some sort of guarantee he would resign than just getting him at the deadline and hoping he stays.

[mcHAPPY]

Lol, I was proving a point and not comparing the two players. The point, if you missed it, was that player's values don't go down just because they're in the final year of their contracts before entering free agency.

If they are entering restricted free agency, I agree.

If they are entering UFA and LeBron James is insisting and trading for the player, I agree.

If they are entering UFA and the team is contending for a championship, I partially agree (a lot based on circumstances).


If they are entering UFA, I disagree. Teams aren't giving up significant valuable assets for a few months of a player. Dwight Howard to the Lakers only proved the dangers of such a strategy if things go unexpected at best and horribly wrong at worst.

[BS10]

I dont think its going to go up.

Its all opinion anyways, but still.

I would think that some smaller market teams would offer far more for Demar if they had him either 1) for longer than a few months or 2) some sort of guarantee he would resign than just getting him at the deadline and hoping he stays.

I agree Demar might get paid more because of those reasons. I also think its a possibility with the lack of depth of great talent after KD in free agency, Demar might be offered more than his share on the trade market and inflate his value. But who really knows right now.

[Snooch]

I agree Demar might get paid more because of those reasons. I also think its a possibility with the lack of depth of great talent after KD in free agency, Demar might be offered more than his share on the trade market and inflate his value. But who really knows right now.

Thats just it, we cannot speak of certainty, only of our thoughts.

[BS10]

If they are entering restricted free agency, I agree.

If they are entering UFA and LeBron James is insisting and trading for the player, I agree.

If they are entering UFA and the team is contending for a championship, I partially agree (a lot based on circumstances).


If they are entering UFA, I disagree. Teams aren't giving up significant valuable assets for a few months of a player. Dwight Howard to the Lakers only proved the dangers of such a strategy if things go unexpected at best and horribly wrong at worst.

That's true but Dwight still got paid as a max player. I don't think its impossible to think that Demar might get paid in the same ball park from some team with lots of cap space.

E.g. Think about how Portland almost stole Enes Kanter from OKC this off-season mainly cause of their salary cap situation.

[mcHAPPY]

That's true but Dwight still got paid as a max player. I don't think its impossible to think that Demar might get paid in the same ball park from some team.

No one has ever questioned DD is gong to get paid in the ball park from some team.

Cap is going up by 1/3 and 20 teams are going to have space for a max contract.


The issue is should the Raptors be the team that makes that commitment given where they currently are in relation to contending for a championship and the consequences of tying up all that money to basically stay where you are.

[Snooch]

That's true but Dwight still got paid as a max player. I don't think its impossible to think that Demar might get paid in the same ball park from some team.

That is a certainty in my opinion.

Not speaking of if it is deserved or not, but someone out there will offer it.

That is why I think his trade value decreases the longer the season goes on.

Because any team could loose him if they don't feel he is worth the max. So unless that team is on the verge of winning a championship...........

[BS10]

No one has ever questioned DD is gong to get paid in the ball park from some team.

Cap is going up by 1/3 and 20 teams are going to have space for a max contract.


The issue is should the Raptors be the team that makes that commitment given where they currently are in relation to contending for a championship and the consequences of tying up all that money to basically stay where you are.

I don't think we are contending but that doesn't mean we should deal DD because we aren't contending. I don't see how that fixes that problem. And even if we deal DD that wouldn't make us any more close to becoming a contender for the chip. That would be like two steps backwards.

I wouldn't call it "tying up money" if keeping Derozan means paying him his money because he would still be valuable as a trading asset and I believe Masai knows this and wouldn't let Derozan walk without getting anything in return.

Edit:
If we can trade Derozan for a possible upgrade I would approve of it. But not paying him because we aren't contending isn't a reason to lose him in free agency. He's still a valuable player that can be used as a trading chip, if not for anything else.

[Wild-ling#1]

That is a certainty in my opinion.

Not speaking of if it is deserved or not, but someone out there will offer it.

That is why I think his trade value decreases the longer the season goes on.

Because any team could loose him if they don't feel he is worth the max. So unless that team is on the verge of winning a championship...........

I would rather he earn a contract and stay (because of his abilities/intangibles). But I'm not afraid of letting him "walk" without getting assets back.

If he walks, we'll have money/assets. And as there's no real punishment for being underneath the cap "floor", it can be an advantage, going forward. We may get assets from a team making a "push", but that seems just as likely a late-season trade (like David Price).

So. I'd like to see DeMar have the chance to prove the skeptics wrong ... or even right! ... working with the new players, a healthy and svelte Kyle, new coaches ... and maybe even a little better "3" stroke.

Make sense?

[mcHAPPY]

I don't think we are contending but that doesn't mean we should deal DD because we aren't contending. I don't see how that fixes that problem. And even if we deal DD that wouldn't make us any more close to becoming a contender for the chip. That would be like two steps backwards.

I wouldn't call it "tying up money" if keeping Derozan means paying him his money because he would still be valuable as a trading asset and I believe Masai knows this and wouldn't let Derozan walk without getting anything in return.

Edit:
If we can trade Derozan for a possible upgrade I would approve of it. But not paying him because we aren't contending isn't a reason to lose him in free agency. He's still a valuable player that can be used as a trading chip.

Raptors should be looking at dealing DD because they aren't contending and they are looking at allocating 20-25% of the salary cap to him.

Taking 2 steps back to allow you to move forward is not a bad thing.

Staying where you are with no ability to move forward is very much a bad thing.


Masai can do what he likes but come July 1st, DD is in the drivers seat.

[BS10]

Raptors should be looking at dealing DD because they aren't contending and they are looking at allocating 20-25% of the salary cap to him.

Taking 2 steps back to allow you to move forward is not a bad thing.

Staying where you are with no ability to move forward is very much a bad thing.


Masai can do what he likes but come July 1st, DD is in the drivers seat.

Well I wouldn't say Masai has no ability to move forward but more so the opposite with signing Derozan to a major deal. He has a lot of flexibility with the assets and short term contracts he's gathered. A Derozan 20 mil contract wouldn't be a black hole for our salary cap situation. I think given Masai's talent for trading deadweight contracts to some possible suitors it wouldn't be hard for him to find a trading partner for Derozan if he really wanted him gone. He did get us a potential top 5-10 pick for Barnangi in next year's draft.