Everything Valanciunas

[DanH]

More like could be, but yeah, that's basically the "usefulness" of the stat.

Yeah, the statement is true if you also say "or anything in between".

[consmap]

What I got from DanH's graph is that next year JV will either be prime Mutombo, or he'll be Bargnani.

JV will either be a good or a bad basketball player

[JWash]

It's interesting how when there's a negative stat about JV the narrative instantly goes to how other players on the team are to blame for it. But when there's a negative stat about DeRozan it's his fault and his alone, and when there's a negative stat about the team as a whole it's also DeRozan and/or Lowry's fault.

DFG% here is being ignored as "luck" for JV here even though he is 20% worse at the rim this year in that stat. However for DeRozan, who also struggles with DFG% this year, it's used as some sort of legitimate argument for him not putting in any effort on the defensive end, even though the past two years he has had average-slightly above average numbers there.

Just seems like a massive double standard to me, as someone who's a fan of both players.

[JWash]

The way I see it JV is a pretty average defender. Not a high impact guy on that end of the floor, however if you give him the opportunity on offense he'll more than make up for not being a big plus on the defensive end.

Similar to someone like Pau Gasol. I think the potential could still be there for JV to be more like the other Gasol brother on that end, since he's only 23, but for now I think that's where he stands. Doesn't hurt you, but doesn't change the game for you on that end, similar to #10.

[KHD]

The way I see it JV is a pretty average defender. Not a high impact guy on that end of the floor, however if you give him the opportunity on offense he'll more than make up for not being a big plus on the defensive end.

Similar to someone like Pau Gasol. I think the potential could still be there for JV to be more like the other Gasol brother on that end, since he's only 23, but for now I think that's where he stands. Doesn't hurt you, but doesn't change the game for you on that end, similar to #10.

A center who is an average defender while being one of the most efficient post scorers in the NBA, at age 23, is a pretty good piece to have.

Just need a real coach.

[KHD]

It's interesting how when there's a negative stat about JV the narrative instantly goes to how other players on the team are to blame for it. But when there's a negative stat about DeRozan it's his fault and his alone, and when there's a negative stat about the team as a whole it's also DeRozan and/or Lowry's fault.

DFG% here is being ignored as "luck" for JV here even though he is 20% worse at the rim this year in that stat. However for DeRozan, who also struggles with DFG% this year, it's used as some sort of legitimate argument for him not putting in any effort on the defensive end, even though the past two years he has had average-slightly above average numbers there.

Just seems like a massive double standard to me, as someone who's a fan of both players.

guard DFG% and big man DFG% are coming from a VERY different set of shot types.

Also I haven't heard many use DFG% to discredit Derozan's defence. All you have to do is watch a single game to see 3 straight up blow-by plays and 3 wide open 3's from a complete lack of effort. Then just repeat for every game of the year and you're getting the picture.

[JWash]

A center who is an average defender while being one of the most efficient post scorers in the NBA, at age 23, is a pretty good piece to have.

Just need a real coach.

I didn't say he's a bad piece to have, he's an excellent piece to have.

I just compared him to Pau Gasol, who was a major centerpiece on a back to back championship team, that's no joke. Arguably could have won one of those finals MVPs over Kobe too.

[JWash]

guard DFG% and big man DFG% are coming from a VERY different set of shot types.

Also I haven't heard many use DFG% to discredit Derozan's defence. All you have to do is watch a single game to see 3 straight up blow-by plays and 3 wide open 3's from a complete lack of effort. Then just repeat for every game of the year and you're getting the picture.

Easy to see what you want when you're looking for it, that's all I'll say. And DFG% has been used quite a fair bit.

[DanH]

Well, I'm the one saying DFG% is garbage and I have never once used it to trash DeRozan. Because it's garbage.

That said, overall DFG% and rim protection DFG% are two different things and I've only examined the latter in detail.

[JWash]

Well, I'm the one saying DFG% is garbage and I have never once used it to trash DeRozan. Because it's garbage.

That said, overall DFG% and rim protection DFG% are two different things and I've only examined the latter in detail.

You're not the only one.

[Barolt]

It's interesting how when there's a negative stat about JV the narrative instantly goes to how other players on the team are to blame for it. But when there's a negative stat about DeRozan it's his fault and his alone, and when there's a negative stat about the team as a whole it's also DeRozan and/or Lowry's fault.

DFG% here is being ignored as "luck" for JV here even though he is 20% worse at the rim this year in that stat. However for DeRozan, who also struggles with DFG% this year, it's used as some sort of legitimate argument for him not putting in any effort on the defensive end, even though the past two years he has had average-slightly above average numbers there.

Just seems like a massive double standard to me, as someone who's a fan of both players.

In my defense:

My opinion on DFG% has changed over the course of this discussion. I still do feel like DeMar's a subpar defender, as I said, I'm not sure there's a defensive stat that encapsulates it because defensive stats are bad.

I will no longer bring up DFG% in any discussions of DeMar, or any other player, because the chart DanH brought forward made it clear how useless the stat is. But lets not pretend that chart was in the wild a month ago when I brought up DeMar's DFG%.

[DanH]

Again, note that the chart I showed is specifically showing run protection DFG%, not general DFG%, though I do expect the general stat is just as dragged down by variability as the rim protection one.

[DanH]

*rim protection, not run protection.

[JWash]

I know what the chart shows.

The reality is that in pretty much every situation, team defense - not just individual - has an impact on whether a shot is going to go in or not.

[Barolt]

I know what the chart shows.

The reality is that in pretty much every situation, team defense - not just individual - has an impact on whether a shot is going to go in or not.

That's true. I posted the other day that I'm starting to feel like the only defensive stats that are actually useful are lineup splits, because there's too much noise in almost everything else. And even lineup splits have flaws.