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  • Team run it back

    Why? I want to ask a serious question why we running it back. Can we beat Boston philly or any team in the eastern conference sure are we winning a championship? Raptors have been a copy cat team so copy Boston sell high gain draft picks and think of after the friendship era is over. We could have moved on from derozan a long time ago but we here now we can’t compete for a championship. Do the raptors continue to collect money from fans or acknowledge our short comings and rebuild. Next season I am boycotting but what the raptors do from here on out determines whether or not I take my hard earned money and support

  • #2
    grindhouse wrote: View Post
    Why? I want to ask a serious question why we running it back. Can we beat Boston philly or any team in the eastern conference sure are we winning a championship? Raptors have been a copy cat team so copy Boston sell high gain draft picks and think of after the friendship era is over. We could have moved on from derozan a long time ago but we here now we can’t compete for a championship. Do the raptors continue to collect money from fans or acknowledge our short comings and rebuild. Next season I am boycotting but what the raptors do from here on out determines whether or not I take my hard earned money and support

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    • #3
      Franchises don't have as much control as they use to. Elite players decide where they'll team up and where they will win.
      Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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      • #4
        I'm not team run it back, but this team is perfectly capable of coming out of the East as constructed. If you have a real chance to go to the Finals, you take it.

        Now, personally, I think the chances are better if they find a new home for DeMar, who is often more a liability than a help in the playoffs. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that the Raptors will be unable to compete for the Eastern Conference crown this coming year.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #5
          Using the tyranny of averages the Raps are a young team... . however the four core players... Kyle/DD/Serge/JV are 32, 28, 28 and 26 respectively. Not old in real life.. but in sports... well lets say they have played more seasons than they are going to going forward.

          If an opportunity presents itself to make a deal for one of Kyle.. DD... or Serge I think Ujiri will pull the trigger for a couple of reasons. To get materially younger with your core players and to move on from that Cleveland debacle this past spring. They melted. He changed the coach and with plenty of shared culpability to go around he has to consider changing his on court personnel as well. Trading Norm or Delon or Jacob doesn't address that your best players didn't play like your best players yet again in the bright lights of the playoffs.

          If he doesn't get in his view an adequate return in what might be a constrained trade market now that win now players out west aren't necessary he can as a good but lesser option sit on what he has and run it back.

          Still time to go on the trade front but so far only one trade.. if you can call it that..... Gortat for Rivers.
          Last edited by Demographic Shift; Wed Jul 4, 2018, 11:07 AM.
          There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
          - TGO

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          • #6
            Here is a real question. Players remember when a franchise does them dirty or even their fellow players dirty... remember the NBA is a brotherhood. Would trading derozan potentially tarnish our reputation for taking care of our own?

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            • #7
              DanH wrote: View Post
              I'm not team run it back, but this team is perfectly capable of coming out of the East as constructed. If you have a real chance to go to the Finals, you take it.

              Now, personally, I think the chances are better if they find a new home for DeMar, who is often more a liability than a help in the playoffs. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that the Raptors will be unable to compete for the Eastern Conference crown this coming year.
              Yes, the team needs to move minutes away from Ibaka, Powell (unless he improves), Miles and DeMar to Wright, JV, Siakam, OG, FVV and Poeltl. Lowry keeps his minutes, ups his usage. Miles was actually better in the playoffs than anybody other than Lowry, JV and Wright, though still not good.

              So trading any of Ibaka, Powell, Miles or DeMar could potentially improve the team, for sure. I just don't believe that there is demand for these players, especially Ibaka and DeMar, without sweeteners or taking back bad contracts. That is why I'm assuming that they will be back, and the best answer is to simply reduce their roles next year. Which, from comments Nick has made about Lowry and JV, sounds like the plan.

              If a trade is possible, the profile of the player would be similar to DD, a slightly above average starter on a contract that is expensive and long, but that plays a game that is more suitable to being a 3rd option. The only reason that a team would trade such a player for DeMar, is that they wanted DD as the 1st or 2nd offensive option on their team, and I just don't think such a team exists.

              If Masai pulls off a miracle, that would be awesome, but the real question is how is Nurse going to reduce DeMar's usage and minutes.
              Last edited by Quirk; Wed Jul 4, 2018, 12:00 PM.

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              • #8
                TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                Here is a real question. Players remember when a franchise does them dirty or even their fellow players dirty... remember the NBA is a brotherhood. Would trading derozan potentially tarnish our reputation for taking care of our own?
                We signed him to a max deal so I'd say we took care of him. I suppose if we traded him to Sacramento that could be considered doing him dirty.

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                • #9
                  Quirk wrote: View Post
                  Yes, the team needs to move minutes away from Ibaka, Powell (unless he improves), Miles and DeMar to Wright, JV, Siakam, OG, FVV and Poeltl. Lowry keeps his minutes, ups his usage. Miles was actually better in the playoffs than anybody other than Lowry, JV and Wright, though still not good.

                  So trading any of Ibaka, Powell, Miles or DeMar could potentially improve the team, for sure. I just don't believe that there is demand for these players, especially Ibaka and DeMar, without sweeteners or taking back bad contracts. That is why I'm assuming that they will be back, and the best answer is to simply reduce their roles next year. Which, from comments Nick has made about Lowry and JV, sounds like the plan.

                  If a trade is possible, the profile of the player would be similar to DD, a slightly above average starter on a contract that is expensive and long, but that plays a game that is more suitable to being a 3rd option. The only reason that a team would trade such a player for DeMar, is that they wanted DD as the 1st or 2nd offensive option on their team, and I just don't think such a team exists.

                  If Masai pulls off a miracle, that would be awesome, but the real question is how is Nurse going to reduce DeMar's usage and minutes.
                  My thing with trading DeMar or Ibaka is that I'm absolutely fine with taking back bad salary, so long as it's no longer than the two years those guys are owed. I expect they both have better value than you assume, but I would maximize return for them by taking dead salary if need be.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • #10
                    grindhouse wrote: View Post
                    Why? I want to ask a serious question why we running it back. Can we beat Boston philly or any team in the eastern conference sure are we winning a championship? Raptors have been a copy cat team so copy Boston sell high gain draft picks and think of after the friendship era is over. We could have moved on from derozan a long time ago but we here now we can’t compete for a championship. Do the raptors continue to collect money from fans or acknowledge our short comings and rebuild. Next season I am boycotting but what the raptors do from here on out determines whether or not I take my hard earned money and support
                    The answer is that a team's ownership and management has a responsibility to put a quality product on the floor and try to win games and get better. The biggest issue with the league right now is that 1/3 of the league, if not more, has abdicated its responsibility and broken trust with the fans and other teams in that they are trying to lose. Think about that for a second. Really think about it. Think about how bad that is for the game and the league. Just think about how bad it has become that you are boycotting a 59-win team that has a real chance to go to the Finals because you would rather the organizational actively try to lose as many games as possible in the hopes of years from now competing again.

                    As I've said before, people can make the case for this tanking bullshit on the merits in any given individual team situation (though I think the arguments are spurious) but there is no doubt that it is bad for the NBA overall and is going to have serious repercussions if the league continues down the path. The Raps should absolutely be trying to win this year. Can they beat the Warriors in 7 games? No, they cannot. But that doesn't mean you give up.

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                    • #11
                      slaw wrote: View Post
                      The answer is that a team's ownership and management has a responsibility to put a quality product on the floor and try to win games and get better. The biggest issue with the league right now is that 1/3 of the league, if not more, has abdicated its responsibility and broken trust with the fans and other teams in that they are trying to lose. Think about that for a second. Really think about it. Think about how bad that is for the game and the league. Just think about how bad it has become that you are boycotting a 59-win team that has a real chance to go to the Finals because you would rather the organizational actively try to lose as many games as possible in the hopes of years from now competing again.

                      As I've said before, people can make the case for this tanking bullshit on the merits in any given individual team situation (though I think the arguments are spurious) but there is no doubt that it is bad for the NBA overall and is going to have serious repercussions if the league continues down the path. The Raps should absolutely be trying to win this year. Can they beat the Warriors in 7 games? No, they cannot. But that doesn't mean you give up.
                      The system is broken. Everybody: fan, front office, player Is solely focused on a ring as soon as possible. It's why kevin Durant panicked at age 27 (Jordan had 0 rings at Kevin's age at the time) and did it shamelessly and hilariously. It's why a third of the league tries to lose, and it's why every fan base south of golden State has a large portion of it's group CHEERING TO SUCK.

                      Welcome to 2018 where it's not the thrill of the competition, everybody thinks they're more intelligent than the next guy and hang up Sam hinkie posters in their room.
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • #12
                        As an aside, can you imagine what the players must be thinking? Derozan? Drafted here, grew up into a man, loyalty here, worked his damn ass off to go from raw athlete to 2nd team all NBA and take the group to new heights. All you can read is "GET RID OF HIM! BRANDOM INGRAM! THE 12TH AND 13TH PICKS! ANYTHING! RESET! START OVER! THEY SUCK!"

                        And then the other side of us says he damn well better be out their grinding to come back and put his heart and soul for the "raptor faithful"

                        I mean damn. I know it's the nature of the beast, but these guys are human. And most younger than me now. Why should they give a flying fuck about us?
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • #13
                          Primer wrote: View Post
                          We signed him to a max deal so I'd say we took care of him. I suppose if we traded him to Sacramento that could be considered doing him dirty.
                          it was actually less than the max

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                          • #14
                            KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            As an aside, can you imagine what the players must be thinking? Derozan? Drafted here, grew up into a man, loyalty here, worked his damn ass off to go from raw athlete to 2nd team all NBA and take the group to new heights. All you can read is "GET RID OF HIM! BRANDOM INGRAM! THE 12TH AND 13TH PICKS! ANYTHING! RESET! START OVER! THEY SUCK!"

                            And then the other side of us says he damn well better be out their grinding to come back and put his heart and soul for the "raptor faithful"

                            I mean damn. I know it's the nature of the beast, but these guys are human. And most younger than me now. Why should they give a flying fuck about us?
                            granted michael porter junior at 13 would have been possible and would have been nice.

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                            • #15
                              I really do like the wheel method of draft picks - where your draft slot is known ahead of time and it's based on what year of the cycle you're on, not based on how bad you were the previous year.

                              Everyone is trying to win every night. No one is crying for teams to trade away all their good star players so they can get bad immediately. There's no Boston-Brooklyn deals where a team thinks they're trading away late 1st round picks and are actually trading away three number 5 picks. Fans are cheering for their team to win, not lose. Players like Bledsoe aren't being sent home for the year for no reason.

                              Is there a competitive balance issue problem there? Sure. The parity in the league might actually decrease, as bad teams with bad management and bad ownership really have no way of getting out of the muck. But those teams need to clean up their act and get better anyways.

                              I just don't want to hear anymore about how this teams not good enough and needs to bottom out to have a chance for a championship. Because, sure, maybe eventually that's true, but why do we have to do that now? Why can't we have another really fun, really good competitive years with deep playoff runs before we set off into the unknown tank job that could take decades to actually produce anything of this quality again.
                              That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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