Everything Derozan

[Maury]

I have to admit that I was one of the people who did give up on Demar ... and I freely admit I was wrong.

Typically what you are as a basketball player stays the same year over year. Demar has had an unbelievable progression, especially this year. This year Demar's and Jimmy Butler's stats are pretty comparable: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/player...28&season=2017

Jimmy Butler has consistently been at around this level ALL 7 of his years in the league. Demar NEVER was ... and over 7 years has gone from being Dion Waiters for 5 years, to being Thaddeus Young for 2 years, to being Jimmy Butler this year. Players just don't do that ... except Demar did!!

P.S. What happened? Compare this year's stats to his career averages: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/318-demar-derozan
- his assists are WAY up (2 assists/48 min jump)
- he has (finally) added a 3-point shot (36.8% vs. 29% career average)
- he's improved his 2-point shooting too (51.0% vs. 48% career average)
- everything else is around the same ... which is normal for basketball players

Didn’t Jimmy Butler win MIP? He went from an 11 ppg defender to a 22ppg 3 point shooting, playmaking superstar in basically one season. Jimmy is probably a top 10 player in the league and has actually improved very similarly to Demar. I would say Demar isn’t quite as good as Jimmy yet. Jimmy is a better 3 point shooter, defender, and playmaker. Demar is a bit more efficient, and can handle a workload a lot better. Jimmy imo is more clutch.

It’s definitely great that Demar is in the conversation with Jimmy as a player though because it was only 2 years ago that Jimmy was clearly the better player by far in every aspect of the game.

[Scraptor]

Never questioned his character, hard work and discipline.

But totally amazed of his transformation this past month (threes, defense and making his teammates better)

I hope it continues so the Claw will go permanently extinct.

You don't need to go extinct, dude. Just give credit where credit is due. Be reborn as a reasonable poster.

[Scraptor]

I have to admit that I was one of the people who did give up on Demar ... and I freely admit I was wrong.

Typically what you are as a basketball player stays the same year over year. Demar has had an unbelievable progression, especially this year. This year Demar's and Jimmy Butler's stats are pretty comparable: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/player...28&season=2017

Jimmy Butler has consistently been at around this level ALL 7 of his years in the league. Demar NEVER was ... and over 7 years has gone from being Dion Waiters for 5 years, to being Thaddeus Young for 2 years, to being Jimmy Butler this year. Players just don't do that ... except Demar did!!

P.S. What happened? Compare this year's stats to his career averages: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/318-demar-derozan
- his assists are WAY up (2 assists/48 min jump)
- he has (finally) added a 3-point shot (36.8% vs. 29% career average)
- he's improved his 2-point shooting too (51.0% vs. 48% career average)
- everything else is around the same ... which is normal for basketball players

Except this is wrong in multiple ways.

1. Basketball players don't stay the same year over year, they typically improve over their first 3-5 years in the league. This is more pronounced for players who start at age 19 as they are still growing into their bodies and don't have the same amount of experience as college players who stayed through their junior or senior years.

2. Jimmy Butler started at age 22, so he had a headstart on DeMar, but even then he didn't perform at the same level all seven years. He gradually improved over his first four years. His third year he shot only 52.2% TS (28% from 3), and had only an 11% assist rate. His following season he improved to 58% and 14%, respectively, and his fifth season he improved his playmaking to raise his assist rate to 21%.

3. Dion Waiters has never cleared 50.8% TS and has a career average of 49.1%TS. DeMar's first five years he only went below 52% once and averaged 52.6%. Not great, but much better than Waiters. Note also that DeMar produced 21.5 win shares over that time frame, while in six seasons Waiters has only produced 7.4.

4. DeMar has actually played 8 full seasons in the NBA. So if you want to shift gears after year 5, you need to look at his last three years. Over the past three full seasons he put up 24/5/4 on 54.1%TS. That was good for 27th in the NBA in win shares, while Thaddeus Young was 104th.

It's a pretty backhanded compliment to say that DeMar played like Waiters and Young for "7" years, and is suddenly playing amazing this year. His assists are not WAY up, his assist percentage increased from 20.6% to 23.8%. In fact, over the four years prior to this one, DeMar had a 19.4% assist rate, while Butler had an 18.1% assist rate. Including this year it's 19.9% to 18.5% for DeMar.

DeMar has been passing the ball and making plays for four solid years. He's taking it to another level this year, but to dismiss the last four years of very good play by comparing him to Waiters and Young is to say: "Maybe I was wrong, but not really."

[leach11]

Except this is wrong in multiple ways.

1. Basketball players don't stay the same year over year, they typically improve over their first 3-5 years in the league. This is more pronounced for players who start at age 19 as they are still growing into their bodies and don't have the same amount of experience as college players who stayed through their junior or senior years.

2. Jimmy Butler started at age 22, so he had a headstart on DeMar, but even then he didn't perform at the same level all seven years. He gradually improved over his first four years. His third year he shot only 52.2% TS (28% from 3), and had only an 11% assist rate. His following season he improved to 58% and 14%, respectively, and his fifth season he improved his playmaking to raise his assist rate to 21%.

3. Dion Waiters has never cleared 50.8% TS and has a career average of 49.1%TS. DeMar's first five years he only went below 52% once and averaged 52.6%. Not great, but much better than Waiters. Note also that DeMar produced 21.5 win shares over that time frame, while in six seasons Waiters has only produced 7.4.

4. DeMar has actually played 8 full seasons in the NBA. So if you want to shift gears after year 5, you need to look at his last three years. Over the past three full seasons he put up 24/5/4 on 54.1%TS. That was good for 27th in the NBA in win shares, while Thaddeus Young was 104th.

It's a pretty backhanded compliment to say that DeMar played like Waiters and Young for "7" years, and is suddenly playing amazing this year. His assists are not WAY up, his assist percentage increased from 20.6% to 23.8%. In fact, over the four years prior to this one, DeMar had a 19.4% assist rate, while Butler had an 18.1% assist rate. Including this year it's 19.9% to 18.5% for DeMar.

DeMar has been passing the ball and making plays for four solid years. He's taking it to another level this year, but to dismiss the last four years of very good play by comparing him to Waiters and Young is to say: "Maybe I was wrong, but not really."

Lol wrecked.

[S.R.]

The ESPN player ranking people want to say sorry, DeMar - http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...turns-mvp-form

[KeonClark]

The ESPN player ranking people want to say sorry, DeMar - http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...turns-mvp-form

[S.R.]

I don't have a problem going ISO late in games if your star can get buckets. The argument in the past has always been the Raptors scorers aren't good enough to follow a blueprint that teams with Lebron/Curry/Durant etc. use. This changes a bit if DeMar elevates his game to a legit top 10 player in the league, especially at the offensive end. Personally I still prefer team play, but this is pretty good:

Game on the line, go to your All-Star.

1 RT = 1 DeMar DeRozan #NBAVote pic.twitter.com/4poUlgUeHe

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) January 9, 2018

The bigger weakness recently continues to be the defence. The offence is putting up points but the D needs to get more crunch time stops in a game like last night's.

[DanH]

I don't have a problem going ISO late in games if your star can get buckets. The argument in the past has always been the Raptors scorers aren't good enough to follow a blueprint that teams with Lebron/Curry/Durant etc. use. This changes a bit if DeMar elevates his game to a legit top 10 player in the league, especially at the offensive end. Personally I still prefer team play, but this is pretty good:

Game on the line, go to your All-Star.

1 RT = 1 DeMar DeRozan #NBAVote pic.twitter.com/4poUlgUeHe

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) January 9, 2018

The bigger weakness recently continues to be the defence. The offence is putting up points but the D needs to get more crunch time stops in a game like last night's.

I definitely still have an issue with the ISO. As amazing as DeMar is, he's so much better when you set a screen for him first. Whether that lets him attack a moving defence, attack a mismatch, or draw a double to leverage his much-improved passing, it's better than letting the defence decide when and where to send help on an isolation. And even if DeMar's shot quality is no better in that scenario, it still moves the defence so that guys have a shot at an offensive board.

Crunch time defence is important, but ultimately it will come down to the opponent missing shots. Even if you make them take the shots you want, they can still get hot. But so long as you execute an offence properly, you should still have a good shot to win even if the opposition hits tough shots. Not so if you throw away possessions as the Raptors were down much of the stretch last night.

[GLF]

I definitely still have an issue with the ISO. As amazing as DeMar is, he's so much better when you set a screen for him first. Whether that lets him attack a moving defence, attack a mismatch, or draw a double to leverage his much-improved passing, it's better than letting the defence decide when and where to send help on an isolation. And even if DeMar's shot quality is no better in that scenario, it still moves the defence so that guys have a shot at an offensive board.

Crunch time defence is important, but ultimately it will come down to the opponent missing shots. Even if you make them take the shots you want, they can still get hot. But so long as you execute an offence properly, you should still have a good shot to win even if the opposition hits tough shots. Not so if you throw away possessions as the Raptors were down much of the stretch last night.

Yea it seems like going ISO to close close games is probably going to take the longest for us to improve on. A lot of the time I find Demar waves off the screen when a screener is coming to help him so it may not be all Casey's fault.

[MixxAOR]

Yea it seems like going ISO to close close games is probably going to take the longest for us to improve on. A lot of the time I find Demar waves off the screen when a screener is coming to help him so it may not be all Casey's fault.

It's not about improving. It's a philosophy. Casey wants ball in "best players" hands in clutch times. This is all by design

[KeonClark]

It's not about improving. It's a philosophy. Casey wants ball in "best players" hands in clutch times. This is all by design

Yep, theyre not trying to culture change their way to a pascal siakam open 3 in the final minute of a tie game

[DanH]

Yep, theyre not trying to culture change their way to a pascal siakam open 3 in the final minute of a tie game

And if that's the case, they shouldn't have Siakam on the court in the final minute of a tie game. They should have players on the court they are willing to let have the last shot.

[KeonClark]

And if that's the case, they shouldn't have Siakam on the court in the final minute of a tie game. They should have players on the court they are willing to let have the last shot.

Agree. Casey coached a poor game last night. Could have used JV's offense/rebounding, cjs spacing imo

[LJ2]

I don't have a problem going ISO late in games if your star can get buckets. The argument in the past has always been the Raptors scorers aren't good enough to follow a blueprint that teams with Lebron/Curry/Durant etc. use. This changes a bit if DeMar elevates his game to a legit top 10 player in the league, especially at the offensive end. Personally I still prefer team play, but this is pretty good:

Game on the line, go to your All-Star.

1 RT = 1 DeMar DeRozan #NBAVote pic.twitter.com/4poUlgUeHe

— Toronto Raptors (@Raptors) January 9, 2018

The bigger weakness recently continues to be the defence. The offence is putting up points but the D needs to get more crunch time stops in a game like last night's.

I agree if it's a truly clutch player you are putting in that situation.

[slaw]

And if that's the case, they shouldn't have Siakam on the court in the final minute of a tie game. They should have players on the court they are willing to let have the last shot.

In the last three minutes they were up 98-92 and proceeded to score on 4 of the last 7 possessions. Obviously, that's not ideal but it's not horrible either. On the other hand, they allowed the Nets to score 15 points in three minutes. I get the EOG offense concerns but that isn't what cost them last night.