Matt52 wrote:
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Rudy Gay "Pseudo Superstar"
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There is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.
The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?
In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitski
These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.
So, who isn't on the list:
Dwayne Wade
Tony Parker
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Russel Westbrook
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Carmelo Anthony
Deron Williams
Josh Smith
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jrue Holiday
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Manu Ginobili
Blake Griffin
Ty Lawson
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolf
James Harden
Steph Curry
Steve Nash
Pau Gasol
Al Jefferson
Paul Millsap
Rudy Gay
These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.
And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.
One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.
There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?
I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. I’m hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.
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JawsGT wrote: View PostIn any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitski
The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.
Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...
My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Mar 26, 2013, 03:59 PM.
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JawsGT wrote: View PostThere is no such thing as a pseudo-superstar. What is that supposed to mean anyways? Rudy Gay is a great SF, and thats about it. He is no saviour, he isn;t gonna take us to the promised land, he isn't the answer to the Raps problems. He is a huge improvement in the SF position, a 15-20 ppg player, a go-to offensive guy, and someone you can depend on to get a shot off down the stretch or in crunch time. He isn't going to "improve" much. Many posters seem to think that Rudy has some untapped potential that he was waiting to unveil just for the Raptors. Please, the only improvement you can hope for from Rudy is shot selection, which if improved, should also improve his percentages...and that alone would be great.
The labels are marketing and public relations, just the front office trying to justify their decisions. Not that I disagree with acquiring Gay, I am in full support, but just that he isn't a franchise guy that the Raps want you to believe he is. If he was a franchise guy, than Memphis would have dumped one of the big men instead, don't you agree?
In any event, these are the only superstars (franchise guys) in the NBA right now, in my opinion:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitski
These are the guys, I believe, can make a team better regardless of the situation. And these are guys you can "build around". The list is short, and I'm sure most of you are rolling your eyes.
So, who isn't on the list:
Dwayne Wade
Tony Parker
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Russel Westbrook
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Carmelo Anthony
Deron Williams
Josh Smith
Monta Ellis
Brandon Jennings
Jrue Holiday
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Manu Ginobili
Blake Griffin
Ty Lawson
Marc Gasol
Zach Randolf
James Harden
Steph Curry
Steve Nash
Pau Gasol
Al Jefferson
Paul Millsap
Rudy Gay
These are players that need other great players to compliment them. They cannot do it alone with just role players. Yes, I know, you can argue that some of those be elevated into the superstar category. Carmelo maybe? How about Harden? Mr. Wade, isn't he a superstar? I believe Wade was, but isn't anymore. I believe Harden will be, but isn't yet. And Melo is just a bum in my opinion. I don't think he will ever be on a championship winning team, unless it's at the end of his career as a role player. He reminds me of AI, he has been and will be on some great teams. But not the best team, not as long as he is the focus and the number one guy. And some of the other names have potential to be superstars, but they will have to prove it in the years to come. And yes, KG and TD are old, and not really worth building around at this point in their careers, but they are still superstars in my mind, especially TD.
And, of the guys on that list, Rudy may very well deserve to be on the bottom of it (if it was ranked, which it isn't). Basically, my point is that there are many higher impact players in the league than Rudy Gay, so lets not put all our hopes on him.
One more point. My list has 8 superstars, 4 of which should be retired within 5 or less seasons. By that time, I'm sure I could elevate 4 or more of the other names into the superstar category. Rudy Gay will not be one of those names. But no, thats not the point.
There are very few superstars to distribute amonst the 30 NBA teams, so naturally, most will have to do without. So, this idea of requiring 2 or more superstars in order to have a competitive franchise is ludicrous. In fact, you shouldn't even need one. 2 of the guys on my second list, surrounded by good role players and a sound coaching staff can be a championship contending team (Denver?). Only one of the guys on my superstar list is needed with the right role players and staff. The key is playing good team defense, ball movement, and smart shot selection. These are problems the Raps have, are they not? Or is the problem in Raptorland the fact that we don't have a superstar, or another one if you believe Rudy Gay is?
I really hate that some of the posters on this site have such a hard-on for superstar type players. One: because there are so few of them yet many fans think TO or the Raps deserve one, or should have one. Are you unable to cheer for a team that does not have a celebrity on it? Two: TO isn't a basketball market for superstars. These guys wanna stay in their own country, playing for the teams in the top markets. They don't want to be here, so lets focus on getting players that will enjoy playing in TO and Canada. I’m hoping that RG, JV and AJ are amongst those players.
I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.
The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.
Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...
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Soft Euro wrote: View PostHoward before injury should make the list though.
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Primer wrote: View PostGreat post. Logical and not seething with venom. I wish we had more of that around here.
I'm with you on the realistic Raptor fan train. We just need some more guys on or near your second list. Rudy Gay is a great piece for a contending team, we just gotta keep adding more and hope some develop from our current roster (DD, JV, Ross). Too bad Bargs isn't of the quality of your second list or we'd have a pretty good team right now.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.
The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.
Unfortunately, Gay ($18M) is overpaid, while guys like Bargnani ($11M) and DeRozan ($9.5M) are nowhere close to being on a skill-tier worth that much money. It's crazy to think that the Raptors have $38.5M tied up next season in those 3 players (roughly 2/3 of the team's salary cap in just 3 incomplete players) - all are ineffcient offensively, two can't play defense (AB/DD) and two are redundant in the starting lineup (RG/DD). I have a hard time being supportive of BC anymore...
My frustration is at the point where I am supportive of sweeping changes - Colangelo, Casey, Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Anderson, Lucas, Pietrus and Gray. A complete changing of the guard, leaving a core of Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, Johnson, Ross and Fields to build around.
Problem solved! Except, our cap will still be SHIT!Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.
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Primer wrote: View PostIn that same vein, if we could somehow swap Bargs for Boozer in the off season I think we'd have a team that could contend for the division championship. Not a NBA championship, but it'd be fun to watch the next 2 years until all the big contracts are up and JV/Ross/DD should be ready to lead the team.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI'd take your thinking a step further, arguing that KG, Duncan and Dirk are past their prime as 'superstar' players. Even Kobe doesn't have many seasons left in him, as he's showing signs of breaking down.
The fact that a player as dominant as Howard doesn't make this list just goes to show that one-dimensional players aren't enough to carry a team or build around. I think you're seeing a general trend around the NBA to build a 'team', as opposed to building around a single player. The key is to get as many players in the next tier or two as possible, ideally on rookie/reasonable contracts.Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Mar 27, 2013, 09:46 AM.
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