Xixak wrote:
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Signs Of Tanking?
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As an aside, Chad Ford has his first top-30 for the 2014 draft, so if you don't know who's potentially in this class other than Wiggins, you might want to enjoy some light reading.
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After reading Zach Lowe's Bobcats article today, I believe even more strongly that a Rudy-to-Charlotte deal is very possible and, depending on how the season proceeds, even probable.
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magoon wrote: View PostAfter reading Zach Lowe's Bobcats article today, I believe even more strongly that a Rudy-to-Charlotte deal is very possible and, depending on how the season proceeds, even probable.
If Rudy's eye surgery ups his shooting, I could see Masai setting his sights on MKG."Stop eating your sushi."
"I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
"I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
- Jack Armstrong
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JimiCliff wrote: View PostSeems like the kind of move Jordan would make.
If Rudy's eye surgery ups his shooting, I could see Masai setting his sights on MKG.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostMKG definitely seems like a DC type of player. If the Raps could get at least one 1st round pick in addition to MKG and the expiring contract of Gordon, that wouldn't be a horrible deal to kickstart a retool/rebuild/tank. If you compare what the Raptors traded for Gay, to that type of return, then it's actually a pretty good deal in terms of players, picks and finances.
Basically trading Jose Calderon + Ed Davis for #2 Pick, Lottery Pick, expiring.
I'm really not sure why Charlotte would even consider that unless MKG is looking awful.
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Xixak wrote: View PostUmm... that would be highway robbery.
Basically trading Jose Calderon + Ed Davis for #2 Pick, Lottery Pick, expiring.
I'm really not sure why Charlotte would even consider that unless MKG is looking awful.
The Memphis trade was as much a salary dump and addition-by-subtraction (Hollinger is such an advanced stats guy), but Toronto's motivations for making such a deal would be entirely different, so of course the required return would also differ accordingly.
Do I think this is plausible? Sure. Likely? Doubtful. I'm just playing along with the idea and see a trade that would seemingly fit the strategy that both teams are employing in that scenario; win-now for Charlotte and rebuild/tank for Toronto.
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magoon wrote: View PostAfter reading Zach Lowe's Bobcats article today, I believe even more strongly that a Rudy-to-Charlotte deal is very possible and, depending on how the season proceeds, even probable.
One of the more interesting things I did draw from that article (interesting how we see things that are more in line with what we want, eh. lol), is that one of the big benefits that the Bobcats see in having Jefferson is that he'll draw attention from defenses, enabling the young guys to develop without so much defensive pressure (you might say unlike what DD has been facing from defenses), exactly one of the benefits that the young Raps should get from having Rudy out there. That's to say that Rudy's value to the Raps isn't just his production, but how his presence further enables the young Raps development.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostMKG definitely seems like a DC type of player. If the Raps could get at least one 1st round pick in addition to MKG and the expiring contract of Gordon, that wouldn't be a horrible deal to kickstart a retool/rebuild/tank. If you compare what the Raptors traded for Gay, to that type of return, then it's actually a pretty good deal in terms of players, picks and finances.
I'd be happy with Gay + any non-2014 1st round pick for MKG and Gordon."Stop eating your sushi."
"I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
"I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
- Jack Armstrong
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Xixak wrote: View PostUmm... that would be highway robbery.
Basically trading Jose Calderon + Ed Davis for #2 Pick, Lottery Pick, expiring.
I'm really not sure why Charlotte would even consider that unless MKG is looking awful.
Or, to put it another way: a starting unit of Kemba/Henderson/Rudy/Jefferson/Zeller is much stronger than a unit of Kemba/Henderson/MKG/Jefferson/Zeller, because right now MKG's lack of offense lets teams double up the D on Jefferson without too much pain. Rudy instead of MKG means that teams can't double up on Big Al because there's a second credible scoring threat at all times on the floor.
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p00ka wrote: View PostI didn't read anything in that article that points to Rudy being "very possible", never mind "probable". Aside from not seeing it in the article, with a new "defense first" coach, which is MKG's biggest strength, I can't see them giving up on him after 1 year, to take on what would be an unhappy Rudy at his price.
One of the more interesting things I did draw from that article (interesting how we see things that are more in line with what we want, eh. lol), is that one of the big benefits that the Bobcats see in having Jefferson is that he'll draw attention from defenses, enabling the young guys to develop without so much defensive pressure (you might say unlike what DD has been facing from defenses), exactly one of the benefits that the young Raps should get from having Rudy out there. That's to say that Rudy's value to the Raps isn't just his production, but how his presence further enables the young Raps development."Stop eating your sushi."
"I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
"I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
- Jack Armstrong
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magoon wrote: View PostAfter reading Zach Lowe's Bobcats article today, I believe even more strongly that a Rudy-to-Charlotte deal is very possible and, depending on how the season proceeds, even probable.
For Raptor fans hoping for a tank - myself included - this is a great warning of possible outcome:
The Bobcats were getting worse on purpose, just as Boston and San Antonio did in the lead-up to the Tim Duncan lottery, just as the Sixers and Jazz are doing now, and just as other teams will do as long as the league uses a reverse-order lottery to determine draft order. It's a choice for which the organization won't apologize. "Our players then were only so good," says Rod Higgins, the team's president of basketball operations. "We went to the playoffs, and we were swept four straight. We had to move on.""You just can't predict what's going to happen in the lottery," Higgins says. "We've been in the top three spots going in the last two years, and we've moved back both times. What does that tell you?"7
So after the franchise superstar talent did not emerge:
"Of course, we had discussions about those options," Higgins says. "We could have just sat on that money. But we've had a lot of losses over the last two years. We've gotten to the point now where we just want to compete. We have to send that message to our fans."But a trade in that vein doesn't appear to be in the team's immediate plans, though Higgins, of course, cannot rule it out. "If there are opportunities to make this team better via trade, we will do that," he says.
So now they go down this route:
You can slowly build into something like the Nuggets of the last couple of seasons — a very strong team constructed around a bunch of sub-stars making between $6 million and $11 million per season. Amass a solid group of assets like that, and you're a killer trade or high-risk free-agency signing away from being the Pacers or the Grizzlies — a ho-hum bunch that suddenly finds itself a few wins away from the ring.10 Not every team can draft a top-10 overall player, or trade for one, and the Bobcats certainly aren't getting one in free agency. There isn't one such player for every team, and there won't be anything close to one per team as long as the league has a cap on individual player salaries.
There are other ways to compete, and to compete seriously. The problem is that it's unclear whether Charlotte's collection of young pieces can reach the required level for this path. There's no way it could be clear at this point, given the age of some of the key guys. But the early returns don't suggest a two-way force like Paul George, Hibbert, or Marc Gasol lurking among the youngsters here — not yet, anyway.
But the Bobcats at least have some options, and they should finally begin the recovery process from two years of almost unfathomable losing. The ceiling of the present group probably isn't as high as it needs to be, and the Bobcats likely could have pushed that ceiling higher by swallowing another awful season and maintaining cap room in the process.
It is a scary thought. Big difference between Charlotte and Toronto though is Charlotte started their rebuild with Gerald Henderson and Toronto is starting with Jonas Valanciunas. I am more than happy to 'tank' in the hopes of getting an All-Star talent next to JV. If things go as bad as they did for Charlotte, at least Toronto can work towards the Indiana/Memphis path with what looks to be a possible all-star C.
Any combination of Gay/Lowry that returns any combination of Walker/Biyombo/picks/Gordon would be fine by me.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostMKG definitely seems like a DC type of player. If the Raps could get at least one 1st round pick in addition to MKG and the expiring contract of Gordon, that wouldn't be a horrible deal to kickstart a retool/rebuild/tank. If you compare what the Raptors traded for Gay, to that type of return, then it's actually a pretty good deal in terms of players, picks and finances.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostThanks for posting magoon. I've long held the belief Charlotte is going to do whatever they can to win and make playoffs now - treadmill be damned. Given their horrible luck/opportunities the last 3 years I can see why they aren't enthusiastic about placing all the marbles in the lottery again.
Then Lowe decides that no, they just got impatient. And that's because the Bobcats told him that they expect Al Jefferson to make them much better. But what else are the Bobcats going to say, they can't say "yeah, we know that Al Jefferson isn't that good, which is cool, we want another good pick."
In the end, this looks like a very deep draft at the top, it looks 7-8 great prospects deep. So if you are a small market team like Charlotte, it kind of makes sense to move away from extreme losing (the Bobcats had a 23 game losing streak last season, and 18 game streak this season) and sell some tickets but still get a high lotto pick.
We'll see I guess. I won't be surprised if they just wait the season out, no major moves, and pretend that they want to win.
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