A new take on tanking - opponents of this need not click this thread

[Lark Benson]

Negativity now? Good lord! I'm feeling your negativity, man, just as I felt the negativity telling me and others to stay out. Hell, if you want to talk negativity, in one form or another you'd have to talk about 1/2 to 3/4 of the posts here, and about 90% of posts from some people. Hell, Matt here invades just about any thread that discusses any player on the team, except JV, in a positive light, with "negativity", but people don't tell him to get the hell out,,,,, out of courtesy. People don't come here just to pat each other on the back. This isn't a Raptors Kumbaya forum.

Speaking of negative, you proclaim to want to sell off the entire team immediately, for whatever scrap can be had. Now that's something beyond negativity. Coming from that viewpoint, please refrain from preaching to me about negativity.

Look, I don't want to derail this thread or start some sort of needless back and forth here, so I'll just say this: I said your tone was negative, as in what I read from you comes off as taking real offence to things and firing back in anger. Clearly my view of the team is more negative than yours, I'm not disputing that in any way. But to me it says something that you picked the fight to begin with by calling the thread pointless and then seem upset that you were (quite politely I might add) told that it wasn't worth your time to chime in if you didn't have anything to add to the topic. Then you ranted about being excluded from the 'sandbox', to which Matt52 didn't bother replying, and all was well until you popped your head in again to poke the hornet's nest by essentially posting the same thing you had the first time.

So I called you angry, and here we are. Can you really not see why your posts come off that way?

[special1]

To me your tone comes off as extremely negative and condescending. It reads like a rant directed at someone you consider to be of lesser intelligence, as if you believe you're stating the obvious, and people usually don't rant unless they're angry or exasperated. So maybe anger wasn't the right word, but negativity certainly would have fit.

Are you serious??? Your the most negative person i've come across on this forum (when it comes to the Raptors). You want to sell off every player we have for scraps....you don't believe we will ever be good as constructed and would be willing to take less value then we currently have!! Get over yourself dude!

Your a disgrace to true Raptor Fans. I question if you even live in Toronto or Canada!

[NoPropsneeded]

Negativity now? Good lord! I'm feeling your negativity, man, just as I felt the negativity telling me and others to stay out. Hell, if you want to talk negativity, in one form or another you'd have to talk about 1/2 to 3/4 of the posts here, and about 90% of posts from some people. Hell, Matt here invades just about any thread that discusses any player on the team, except JV, in a positive light, with "negativity", but people don't tell him to get the hell out,,,,, out of courtesy. People don't come here just to pat each other on the back. This isn't a Raptors Kumbaya forum.

Speaking of negative, you proclaim to want to sell off the entire team immediately, for whatever scrap can be had. Now that's something beyond negativity. Coming from that viewpoint, please refrain from preaching to me about negativity.

Quote of the day! Hahaha

[special1]

Can someone finally put an end to this disgraceful thread? I question anyone who wants to scrap a team who actually has a CHANCE to make the playoffs for more years of losing!

Rebuilding doesnt equal championship! It never has! Yet some on this thread seem to believe that it will. Good luck to you all.

I feel sorry for you guys because you've gotten sooo used to losing that your unwilling to be a true fan --- you know -- like actually rooting for your team to win?? You guys are the most negative fans i've come across.....you all seem to know the future and yet all seem to think JV will be some all-star.

Don't you think if JV will be as good as you all say, then he should be able to win with Lowry, Rudy, Demar, Amir, Tyler Hansborough, Ross - and who else Ujiri can add to this team??

[KazanTheMan]

Everyone just calm down haha.

[NoPropsneeded]

Everyone just calm down haha.

[Nilanka]

Can someone finally put an end to this disgraceful thread? I question anyone who wants to scrap a team who actually has a CHANCE to make the playoffs for more years of losing!

Rebuilding doesnt equal championship! It never has! Yet some on this thread seem to believe that it will. Good luck to you all.

I feel sorry for you guys because you've gotten sooo used to losing that your unwilling to be a true fan --- you know -- like actually rooting for your team to win?? You guys are the most negative fans i've come across.....you all seem to know the future and yet all seem to think JV will be some all-star.

Don't you think if JV will be as good as you all say, then he should be able to win with Lowry, Rudy, Demar, Amir, Tyler Hansborough, Ross - and who else Ujiri can add to this team??

Gotta look at the big picture, my friend. Do you see this rendition of the Raptors giving the Heat, Nets, Bulls or Pacers a serious run in the playoffs? If so, keep the group in tact at all costs. If not, might as well start assembling a championship contender now.....which unfortunately requires a few steps backwards before moving forward.

[Axel]

Are you serious??? Your the most negative person i've come across on this forum (when it comes to the Raptors). You want to sell off every player we have for scraps....you don't believe we will ever be good as constructed and would be willing to take less value then we currently have!! Get over yourself dude!

Your a disgrace to true Raptor Fans. I question if you even live in Toronto or Canada!

Nice to see your willing to be inclusive. Since when is your postal code a prerequisite for being a fan?

Can someone finally put an end to this disgraceful thread? I question anyone who wants to scrap a team who actually has a CHANCE to make the playoffs for more years of losing!

Rebuilding doesnt equal championship! It never has! Yet some on this thread seem to believe that it will. Good luck to you all.

I feel sorry for you guys because you've gotten sooo used to losing that your unwilling to be a true fan --- you know -- like actually rooting for your team to win?? You guys are the most negative fans i've come across.....you all seem to know the future and yet all seem to think JV will be some all-star.

Don't you think if JV will be as good as you all say, then he should be able to win with Lowry, Rudy, Demar, Amir, Tyler Hansborough, Ross - and who else Ujiri can add to this team??

You have the key in bold already, a chance. How much of a chance is it though? This roster was largely constructed by a guy who was fired to great joy of Raptors fans. How much are you willing to bet on that success? Many fans feel that there is another way, and each person is allowed to feel their way is the better way. But no one should belittle someone just because they disagree. The whole point of the forum is to allow people to discuss their ideas/thoughts on the Raps and present facts to support their claims, which can then be debated using calm rational thoughts. There must be something in the water lately...

Everyone just calm down haha.

This is extra funny cause the guy in your avatar.

[special1]

Gotta look at the big picture, my friend. Do you see this rendition of the Raptors giving the Heat, Nets, Bulls or Pacers a serious run in the playoffs? If so, keep the group in tact at all costs. If not, might as well start assembling a championship contender now.....which unfortunately requires a few steps backwards before moving forward.

I get what your saying. I just think soooo many posters on this thread are writing off this team before we even have a chance to play ONE regular season game. It's ridiculous! We're still fans aren't we?? Yet, most on here are rooting for the losses to pile up so they can get lucky in a LOTTERY. Its a disgrace to true fans!

If this team plays poorly in the first few months of the season i would totally understand some of your viewpoints.....I just think its a disgrace to write off your team before they've even had a chance to play a regular season game.

[Nilanka]

I get what your saying. I just think soooo many posters on this thread are writing off this team before we even have a chance to play ONE regular season game. It's ridiculous! We're still fans aren't we?? Yet, most on here are rooting for the losses to pile up so they can get lucky in a LOTTERY. Its a disgrace to true fans!

If this team plays poorly in the first few months of the season i would totally understand some of your viewpoints.....I just think its a disgrace to write off your team before they've even had a chance to play a regular season game.

I would guess that most people on this site agree that the Raptors have a decent shot at making the playoffs this year. But the people who you refer to as "negative" probably aren't too excited about their favourite team mimicking the Atlanta Hawks (i.e. a couple of years of making the playoffs, and nothing to show for it).

[special1]

Nice to see your willing to be inclusive. Since when is your postal code a prerequisite for being a fan?



You have the key in bold already, a chance. How much of a chance is it though? This roster was largely constructed by a guy who was fired to great joy of Raptors fans. How much are you willing to bet on that success? Many fans feel that there is another way, and each person is allowed to feel their way is the better way. But no one should belittle someone just because they disagree. The whole point of the forum is to allow people to discuss their ideas/thoughts on the Raps and present facts to support their claims, which can then be debated using calm rational thoughts. There must be something in the water lately...



This is extra funny cause the guy in your avatar.

We hired a new GM who has decided to wait and see if this core can actually win games! Does that not matter to you pessimists?

I think we should call it the Bryan Colangelo syndrome....fans are so used to constant change (rosters, schemes, strategy, coaches) that they believe that every decision must be made NOW and QUICKLY. What happened to patience? Many of you are not patient with Demar and I fear you will not be patient with JV either. He needs time to develop....he needs to be surrounded with good talent NOT scraps and D-League'rs in the hope that we may get lucky in the draft...... It's madness! Just because he's a Euro, doesn't mean he won't take off at the first chance (if we continue losing)!

We should play the games to win. End Rant.

[special1]

I would guess that most people on this site agree that the Raptors have a decent shot at making the playoffs this year. But the people who you refer to as "negative" probably aren't too excited about their favourite team mimicking the Atlanta Hawks (i.e. a couple of years of making the playoffs, and nothing to show for it).

I would rather be the Atlanta Hawks than the Charlotte Bobcats......but i guess to you guys they're both the same. It's a shame. No free agents will come to a team that sucks (unless you overpay).....Atlanta has Millsap and Brand along with Korver, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Dennis Shroder, Lou Williams, etc. They still have an opportunity to attract free agents or make a trade to get better during the season. They could be the next Indiana for all we know....they're one or two really good players away.

FYI - 28 other teams have nothing to show for it. Championship or bust is it? You need to come back to actually being a fan! THEN IF we win a championship it will be that much sweeter.

[Axel]

We hired a new GM who has decided to wait and see if this core can actually win games! Does that not matter to you pessimists?

I think we should call it the Bryan Colangelo syndrome....fans are so used to constant change (rosters, schemes, strategy, coaches) that they believe that every decision must be made NOW and QUICKLY. What happened to patience? Many of you are not patient with Demar and I fear you will not be patient with JV either. He needs time to develop....he needs to be surrounded with good talent NOT scraps and D-League'rs in the hope that we may get lucky in the draft...... It's madness! Just because he's a Euro, doesn't mean he won't take off at the first chance (if we continue losing)!

We should play the games to win. End Rant.

I think it's quite naive of you to act like you know what the new GM is waiting to see. Maybe it is to see how many games they win, it's entirely possible. It's also quite possible that he's waiting for the right trade opportunity and the market tends to fluctuate as the season progresses. It's also quite possible that he's waiting for players to drive up their market value, since Gay and Lowry are both probably lower than they should be. The point is, nobody knows what Masai is thinking, so to dismiss everyone who thinks different than you as pessimists and not real fans, is completely arrogant.

You talk of patience, yet you are the one who is insisting we try to win now with what we have got rather than taking the longer approach of reconstructing a roster that maximizes the talent on the court, and the rules of the CBA (aka cap space flexibility).

Your last comment about being surrounded with talent seems to demonstrate that you haven't actually bothered to read what other people have written. The vast majority of the "pro-tank" side of the fence don't want a roster full of D-League talent, hence the point of this entire thread. We clearly disagree on the level of talent that this team currently possesses, but I am at least willing to read your posts to try and understand your point of view. Perhaps you wouldn't rant so much if you did so in turn.

[mcHAPPY]

I would rather be the Atlanta Hawks than the Charlotte Bobcats......but i guess to you guys they're both the same. It's a shame. No free agents will come to a team that sucks (unless you overpay).....Atlanta has Millsap and Brand along with Korver, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Dennis Shroder, Lou Williams, etc. They still have an opportunity to attract free agents or make a trade to get better during the season. They could be the next Indiana for all we know....they're one or two really good players away.

FYI - 28 other teams make the playoffs with nothing to show for it. Championship or bust is it? You need to come back to actually being a fan! THEN IF we win a championship it will be that much sweeter.

No free agents will come to a team that doesn't have any cap space either..... Welcome to Toronto.

[mcHAPPY]

I think it's quite naive of you to act like you know what the new GM is waiting to see. Maybe it is to see how many games they win, it's entirely possible. It's also quite possible that he's waiting for the right trade opportunity and the market tends to fluctuate as the season progresses. It's also quite possible that he's waiting for players to drive up their market value, since Gay and Lowry are both probably lower than they should be. The point is, nobody knows what Masai is thinking, so to dismiss everyone who thinks different than you as pessimists and not real fans, is completely arrogant.

You talk of patience, yet you are the one who is insisting we try to win now with what we have got rather than taking the longer approach of reconstructing a roster that maximizes the talent on the court, and the rules of the CBA (aka cap space flexibility).

Your last comment about being surrounded with talent seems to demonstrate that you haven't actually bothered to read what other people have written. The vast majority of the "pro-tank" side of the fence don't want a roster full of D-League talent, hence the point of this entire thread. We clearly disagree on the level of talent that this team currently possesses, but I am at least willing to read your posts to try and understand your point of view. Perhaps you wouldn't rant so much if you did so in turn.

Great post.

The bold nails it. I don't get the rage when someone shares a different perspective. I don't get it at all. Must every person you meet in life share the same values, ideals, or political and religious beliefs? Should we all be of the same cookie cutter? What a bore that would be.