Is DeMar really the so-called "Enigma"?

[ReubenJRD]

I hear and read DeMar DeRozan continually being labelled as the "enigma", something we all used to call Andrea Bargnani. Now, whether or not this is base on opinion, or fact, I for one could argue DeMar isn't THE enigma, but a different player.

"He has all the talent in the world.."
"He has the second gear that he just hasn't reached yet.."
"He's got the ability to be an all-star calibre player..."

All quotes that I used to read and hear about Andrea Bargnani, but ones that I don't read and hear about DeMar DeRozan, these are quotes I hear and read about Rudy Gay.

Obviously, the opening week has been a frustrating one for Raptor fans to watch when talking about Rudy. 20 pounds, Working with Hakeem in the post, surgically repaired eyes, yada-yada-yada.

No one has seen any of that, and he's talked a pretty big game in training camp, pre-season, etc.

Everyone has been looking for Rudy to reach that second gear ever since he was in Memphis - he had all the reasons to say why he wasn't at that level (shoulder injury, 3rd option on offense).

But, he's in Toronto, being trusted as the number 1 guy - he's not showing much of it, arguably since his first week as a Toronto Raptor (all the way back to February).

What do you think - is Rudy the enigma? Not only for the Raptors, but the entire NBA?

[mcHAPPY]

I don't think dd is an enigma.

He just has lacked consistency.

He has played to the level of his talent.


Rudy is a bad player stuck in a great body.

[ReubenJRD]

I don't think dd is an enigma.

He just has lacked consistency.

He has played to the level of his talent.


Rudy is a bad player stuck in a great body.

Interesting take, I know there are specific posters that have constantly called DD the "Next Bargnani" or the enigma.

Bad player in a great body is a bit too far - I would say terrible IQ with a great body, unless that's what you mean.

[Shrub]

I was actually just thinking this tonight during Milwaukee about Rudy, oddly.
Yes.

Why hasn't he realized that his mid-range game is not as good as he thinks it is?
Why hasn't he realized how hard he is to stop in the post?
Why doesn't he optimize his knack for rebounding?
Why does he dribble so much?

Rudy Gay has not realized what he is, and neither has the rest of the NBA.

Really, what Rudy should be is the ultimate sidekick.
He should be Iguodala with a lower basketball IQ, a better post game, more rebounds, less assists, and more points.
Stalemate.

I think Rudy's failures begin and end with his belief that he is a scorer.
Iguodala could have been the same player, but he refused to be a black hole even after Philly asked it of him.
If Rudy would simply take his shots in the flow of the offense, he would be invaluable.

[NoPropsneeded]

If Rudy learned how to bend down a little and tighten his dribble he might not turn the ball over so much. Dude dribbles with a stiff back all the time.

[lilmamba_]

In my opinion, DeMar isn't that so called 'enigma'
he's been inconsistent in the past but now he understands his role
and he understands that if this team is gonna move forward hes gotta play his best day in and day out
we cant win if DD plays like absolute crap and he's knowing of that (hopefully)

I dont know about Rudy. Either he put too much weight on this season or his eyes are bothering him or he never held a basketball all summer, i dunno
but at the end of the day the're all excuses. He could be that enigma for the team. I wouldn't say the next Andrea Bargnani tho...

[Rapstor4Life]

Rudy has to stop thinking hes the "Savior Of The Raptors" and start playing more like a leader these first 3 games hes playing like Melo and in the worst possible ways. I tear my hair out every time he gets the board and instead of passing to KLow he takes it from East to west and tosses up a terrible shot...

Rudy could be great and more efficient if he just let the offense come to him right now hes trying way too hard, thinking Raps succeed because of me not as a team effort and its really worrisome. I think next Tuesdays game against the Heat is going to be "Raptors Savior Gay" on full display and be one of the worst loses of the season...

[Fully]

I think Gay has a lot more in common with Bargnani than DeRozan does, especially when I see the comments like, "If only Rudy would learn how to do ____" or "I wish Rudy would apply himself all the time on defense or the glass". Truth be told however I think it's unfair to lump either one of them in the same category as AB. One similarity is that they all are, of have been, miscast as franchise cornerstones during their time in Toronto, but each player has their own story. I hope the Bargnani curse doesn't live on in Toronto to the point where we compare every half decent player to him for the next decade.

Regarding DD and his "enigma" status, I think the Bargnani experience has subconsciously and unfairly soured a lot of people on DeRozan if anything. A bunch of folks on here churned out excuse after excuse for the better part of seven years for Bargs and got burned, so now they go out of their way to call DD a finished product (and one that's just not good) after four years. There is a middle ground there that is in play, perhaps we should all explore it.

[BallaBalla]

I think Gay has a lot more in common with Bargnani than DeRozan does, especially when I see the comments like, "If only Rudy would learn how to do ____" or "I wish Rudy would apply himself all the time on defense or the glass". Truth be told however I think it's unfair to lump either one of them in the same category as AB. One similarity is that they all are, of have been, miscast as franchise cornerstones during their time in Toronto, but each player has their own story. I hope the Bargnani curse doesn't live on in Toronto to the point where we compare every half decent player to him for the next decade.

Regarding DD and his "enigma" status, I think the Bargnani experience has subconsciously and unfairly soured a lot of people on DeRozan if anything. A bunch of folks on here churned out excuse after excuse for the better part of seven years for Bargs and got burned, so now they go out of their way to call DD a finished product (and one that's just not good) after four years. There is a middle ground there that is in play, perhaps we should all explore it.

I agree with the first point but not at all with the second.

I feel like I am going to be repeating myself a lot this year, but as much as Derozan has improved, we are sour on him because he is just not THAT good.

We all know in our gut that the organization is taking us down a path towards mediocrity again, because they are betting everything on a perennial 3rd scoring option.

It's not that DD and Bargs have anything in common as a player, but they do as far as their treatment by the coaching staff.

I will say it again: we will never be a plus 500 team with Derozan as the first scoring option

[Superjudge]

I look at a player like James, and I see his increased success past the final STAT, but further, into realizing how the game itself should be played, and how you can truly evolve to best put your team in place to win as the true goal any pro athlete should aspire to.

I used to really dislike James.... his 90,000 sq foot house, his stupid "decisions", but he's grown.

Derozan shows signs that he is at least trying to learn this stuff....Gay is 27 or 28 and shows NO signs of it....

Good read here: Watch the video with Hakeem, think Rudy could learn from that with his length???

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...coring-machine

[Craiger]

I think DD is much more 'Bargnani like' in this sense than Rudy.

Rudy clearly has a questionable shot selection, and is generally speaking a questionable shooter. Thing is, atleast he is good or very good at other things.

Gay is a better ball handler, distance shooter, rebounder and defender than Demar.

On the other hand, the only things I see Demar doing better than Gay is shooting mid range (which is still of marginal benifit as he has not been efficient at it historically). Also, marginal enough given his reliance on mid range shooting, has a better shot selection (specifically getting to the line)

Gay's biggest issue is the opportunity cost of his paycheque, followed by his shot selection. Demar's is his questionable ability to do anything other than score, followed by the opportunity cost of his paycheque. That is much more 'Bargnani-ish'.

Aside from that. Bargnani was given a label of having alot of 'potential', which was based on his skill set. However, when we were given at the very least the sober light of hindsight, we see that the so called 'skill set' turns out to be not that skilled at all rather very one dimensional (is a good shooter for a big man). Demar is much the same, except instead of having a supposed diverse 'skill set', what we see potential based in athleticism. But as it turns out, he really isn't that athletic. Rather he is one dimensional in this area - he can jump real high when on the move.

But to be blunt, I really don't think Bargnani was ever an enigma. He simply was who he was, with only the slimmest of margins of that changing, which was not something Colangelo was willing or able to admit. The same applies to both Rudy and Demar. They are who they are, with only the slimmest of margins of that changing, and its just not worth the risk to believe they will be something else.

[Superjudge]

ya man, Bargnani just isnt wired to be a pro athlete. It was pretty apparent after year 3, a lot of us just didnt wanna believe it as we kinda knew it down deep and it really sucked.

[Axel]

In my opinion, DeMar isn't that so called 'enigma'
he's been inconsistent in the past but now he understands his role
and he understands that if this team is gonna move forward hes gotta play his best day in and day out
we cant win if DD plays like absolute crap and he's knowing of that (hopefully)

I dont know about Rudy. Either he put too much weight on this season or his eyes are bothering him or he never held a basketball all summer, i dunno
but at the end of the day the're all excuses. He could be that enigma for the team. I wouldn't say the next Andrea Bargnani tho...

I'm honestly not sure what Demar's role is anymore.

For the last couple of seasons, he's basically been given free reign to score since the only other 'perceived' scorer was Bargnani, a player who operates in different spaces on the court than Demar. With Gay and Demar basically operating in the same mold (midrange, post ups, cut to the rim), does Demar have a clearly defined role?

Before, Demar's mental operation list would be something like - post up smaller guard, cut off the ball, curl off screens for midrange jumper; but now, post up smaller guard unless Gay has a better match-up and is taking advantage of it, cut off the ball but not into the same location as Gay, curl off screens for midrange jumpers unless Gay is. Obviously that isn't exactly verbatim, but you get my point.

[special1]

Demar is clearly not an enigma.....(made me laugh just to write that). It's still early in the season BUT he's shown the ability to be a go-to-player for the Raptors. I would go further to say that Demar is actually underated across the league and it starts with Raptor fans. We hear constant bashing from our own fans/posters regarding his skills while NEVER questioning his work ethic and his desire to BE a Raptor.

It's still VERY early in the season BUT Demar is averaging 20ppg, 4 rebounds per game and 3 assists per game. How can you hate on those numbers right there? YET we still hear the same haters saying he's not good at anything other than scoring......lol

Really?? You don't see any improvement? Do you need Rudy Gay eye surgery or something?? LMAO

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I referred to DeRozan as the new enigma in a recent thread, but it wasn't a knock against DeRozan. I was referring to the way the Raptors organization, local media and fans, all seem to have a need to elevate a player to 'face of the franchise' status, which has a tendency to be accompanied by unfair expectations being heaped on the player.

Bargnani didn't draft himself 1st overall. Bargnani didn't make himself the team's focal point, both on the court and in marketing material, in the post-Bosh era. Bargnani should have been a solid complementary piece as a stretch-4 (or 5) offensively, who was capable off providing decent man defense. Unfortunately, all that happened and way more was expected of him than ever should have been.

I warned two seasons ago, when Bargnani got hurt after his infamous '13 games', that DeRozan was likely to become the next victim of this treatment. DeRozan was thrust into the spotlight as the new #1 player (was #1b to start last season), and has since been featured more prominently in the team's marketing campaign and was given a big raise. With all that has come increased expectations, along with a more critical assessment of his weaknesses. Much like Bargnani, I don't think DeRozan is a #1 or even a #2 option, to be able to carry a team on his own. He could be a #2 scorer, but the rest of his game isn't nearly at that level - and that's not a bad thing. Unfortunately for him, the expectations have already been heaped on him much like they were heaped on Bargnani, because of the way the organization has propped him up. When expectations are unfairly increased beyond what they ever should have been, the player is doomed to fail.

I like DeRozan and hope he proves all the naysayers (myself included), statistics and probabilities wrong, by earning his contract and blossoming into a star this season. I called him the new enigma as a call-out to Bargnani and the need for the Raptors to have the next 'Mighty Mouse' or 'Vinsanity' or even 'CB4' already on the roster, which far too often isn't the case. Enjoy DeRozan for what he is and what he can become; just be sure to keep the expectations fairly in check.