Stop that tankin sh*t mentality

[Green Maple Leaf]

Imo it'd only really be a 2 year process, maybe 1.

I'm of firm belief that Valanciunas is a star talent, and Amir Johnson is definitely capable of being the first big off the bench (maybe even a starter) on a championship level team. DeRozan can actually be a good complementary scorer as well (3rd option or so), and I think with less pressure on him to score he can devote more energy to rebounding (5+ per game), finding open teammates and defending at a higher level.

Say you flip Gay to Charlotte for Gordon, MKG/Biyombo and the Blazers pick (let's say they squeak into playoffs and it's 15th or so).

Send Lowry to maybe Houston or the Knicks for a later 1st round pick.

Get the tank rolling, the team would basically be atrocious with Buycks or whoever running the point and essentially no bench depth. We'd definitely be in the running for a top 3 pick.

Select Wiggins/Parker/Randle/(Insert star prospect here) in the draft.

The two later picks could be packaged for one of the top PG prospects (maybe Andrew Harrison)

We'd have a ton of cap space, with the potential to go after maybe Gordon Hayward as a complementary wing piece to our top pick.


Harrison
DeRozan
Hayward
Randle
Valanciunas

Isn't really out of the question by the end of the season.

What planet are you on?? You sound like you don't even like basketball, you like stats and glamour. Putting this much thought and time into the "Raptors Grand Scheme" is insulting to real men. Get a life

[CalgaryRapsFan]

What planet are you on?? You sound like you don't even like basketball, you like stats and glamour. Putting this much thought and time into the "Raptors Grand Scheme" is insulting to real men. Get a life

Hey now, easy on the personal insults. You may disagree with his idea, but there's no reason to insult the poster.

[special1]

If you're ok with trading Lowry and Gay, wouldn't that essentially signal a tank? These guys will be traded with the future in mind....most likely.

Unless you think Masai will get equal (or better) players in return in an attempt to win now.

The bold - I'm not sure what he can get back.....still a wait and see for me .

[mcHAPPY]

If you're ok with trading Lowry and Gay, wouldn't that essentially signal a tank? These guys will be traded with the future in mind....most likely.

Unless you think Masai will get equal (or better) players in return in an attempt to win now.

My biggest fear might be reality: you trade gay and dd and this team might actually be better with fields and Ross playing within a structured offense

[consmap]

My biggest fear might be reality: you trade gay and dd and this team might actually be better with fields and Ross playing within a structured offense

That's implying that we have one. We're not really sure if our stagnant offense is a result of DD and Gay being on the team and breaking plays, or if Casey is just clueless when it comes to offense. Might be a bit of both too.

[The Great One]

My biggest fear might be reality: you trade gay and dd and this team might actually be better with fields and Ross playing within a structured offense

Wouldn't surprise me.

[special1]

Doesn't mean anything.

The only reason we're one of the youngest is because Ujiri signed a ton of young guys to fill out our bench instead of veterans like most teams do.

If you look at our actual core, it's not THAT young.

Lowry, Gay, Amir, Hansbrough are all known commodities; Fields and DD might have a LITTLE room left for growth but not much.

Ross is pretty old for a sophomore and Valanciunas is the only core guy I'd actually say is "young".

If i remember correctly Masai only brought in 5 new players. The average age on this team is 25 (including the new players)....

Tyler Hansborough - 28
Steve Novak - 30
DJ Augustine - 26
Dwight Buycks - 24
Julyan Stone - 24

I don't see a ton of young players there (according to your definition of young).....but whatever. Ross is 22 (which is young by everyone else's standard i'm sure). Acy is 23 and JV is 21. Demar is 24. I guess they're not THAT young, but still young regardless.

[Nilanka]

My biggest fear might be reality: you trade gay and dd and this team might actually be better with fields and Ross playing within a structured offense

That's implying that we have one. We're not really sure if our stagnant offense is a result of DD and Gay being on the team and breaking plays, or if Casey is just clueless when it comes to offense. Might be a bit of both too.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah, like consmap said, I can't see a structured offense being successfully implemented by Casey

[magoon]

Cathal Kelly in the Star: http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptor...uke_kelly.html

Even when Lowry’s having an off night — as he did in Houston on Monday — he is the keel of this club. They clung to the Rockets for exactly as long as Lowry was in the game, despite Gay and DeMar DeRozan both trying to knock the rim off the backboard. Lowry played nearly 20 minutes with five fouls, drawing the team from 10 back to level. When he finally fouled out in the second overtime, it was 104-104. Two minutes later, they lost 110-104.

You take him out of Monday’s mix, and that game is over in the third quarter.

Take him out of the team altogether, and the season doesn’t make it to New Year’s.

How does it turn out once he goes? First, all cohesion vanishes. If you want to know what a team without a ball handler looks like, spend some time suffering along with the Utah Jazz. Utah is now starting — starting — John Lucas III. They still have more team assists than the Raptors.

If you have no handler, you have no chance.

Best guess — Gay gives up five games after Lowry leaves (which, if it discourages him from shooting so much, might be a short-term performance boost). If he has any financial sense or a loud enough accountant, he’s opting out at year’s end anyway. And he’s not coming back here. Short of blowing an ACL, there’s nothing Gay can do this season that markedly affects his declining value.

Ten games after Gay goes AWOL, just about everyone else will have thrown in the towel as well. Halfway through the season, they’ll be staggering up and down the court like a hobo flashmob, while Tyler Hansbrough jumps manically under the rim like the cyborg we’re beginning to suspect he is.

Lowry’s the pin. The rest of the team is the grenade.

[special1]

My biggest fear might be reality: you trade gay and dd and this team might actually be better with fields and Ross playing within a structured offense

Yeah, like consmap said, I can't see a structured offense being successfully implemented by Casey

LOL - I'm sure everyone remembers Uzoh and his triple double in 2012? I'm pretty sure that Uzoh and DC cost us Barnes or Lillard. It may not matter which bunch of scrubs Masai hands Dwane Casey, there's always a chance we win 1 or 2 more games than we would want to (if we were tanking).....always a chance! Wouldn't that be some shit??? Talk about raining on your tank parade...lol

[peanutwoozle]

I agree, in all major sports, despite being a pro-tanker Raps fan this season.

The concept is that all teams are healthy and 100% competing for the playoffs, with the draft going in reverse order of the standings. Pretty simple and makes absolute sense, in theory.

There are lots of holes in the theory:
- some teams are purposefully bad (at the GM level, I don't believe the coach/players are)
- a team that loses a star to injury may inadvertently be bad for a season (ie: how the Spurs got Duncan)
- a team that narrowly misses the playoffs (ie: a pretty good team) might win the lottery against all odds (ie: Orlando getting Penny Hardaway & Shaq)
- a team might give 100% to legitimately fight for playoffs in the first half, only to end up well behind, then make future-looking trades at the trade deadline (somehow this 2nd-half tanking is acceptable, but full-season tanking is not)
- a team might give 100% to legitimately fight for playoffs even into the second half, only to be eliminated early, at which time they make the remainder of the season all about giving playing time to young players (again, is this a legit team-building strategy or short-term tanking; if the former, why isn't an entire season of this not acceptable?)

I don't think you'll ever get a perfect system, because there are some controllable factors (ie: moves by GM, playing time given by coach) and some non-controllable factors (ie: injury). When you add in the lottery factor (which has some pros & cons) and the fact that so many of these factors are subjective (ie: did the GM really add the best possible players in the offseason? is trying to win now or developing for the future the best coaching strategy for a young team?), I don't think any draft system will ever be ideal.

In that case, is tanking cheating, or is it just a GM being a realist and taking advantage of the system? I get arguments for both sides, but it's a matter of what's "fair/legal" VS what's "right" - and everybody has their own opinion of what "right" is.

Another thing I would do as well is get rid of that coin toss crap and use the tie-breaker system similar to the playoffs, where the team that wins the tie-breaker gets the higher pick

[Balls of Steel]

Umm yea, watching the Kansas and Duke game. Tank away.

[rocwell]

Umm yea, watching the Kansas and Duke game. Tank away.

Jabari, Randle, Wiggins..+ few more. Wow... this is going to be super draft.

[Masai Ujiri]

Tbh, trading one of Gay/DD and inserting Fields/Ross into the starting 5 would likely make the team better...

[Puffer]

Tbh, trading one of Gay/DD and inserting Fields/Ross into the starting 5 would likely make the team better...

Masai is going to have to be careful. Something like "we have to play the young guys to assess their ability so we can find out what we have and make good decisions next season."