Unbalanced NBA?

[Mediumcore]

Yeah, like Craig said, I think there is a difference between last gasp vet deals and prime time moves. I think it also depends on the circumstance. A team looking to rebuild with youth (think Sonics/Thunder trading away Ray Allen to Boston or Utah letting Karl Malone walk to the Lakers) is very different than abandoning your team like LBJ and CB4 did.

LBJ and CB4 were with their respective teams for 7 years each. They didn't just bail on their teams, as there was plenty of time to build something there. I don't see how being there for another 7 years would make it alright for them to move on after they don't have anything left in the tank. They didn't team up with Wade so they could win 60 games either. They teamed up to beat the other super teams which were unbeatable on their own, imo.

[Axel]

LBJ and CB4 were with their respective teams for 7 years each. They didn't just bail on their teams, as there was plenty of time to build something there. I don't see how being there for another 7 years would make it alright for them to move on after they don't have anything left in the tank. They didn't team up with Wade so they could win 60 games either. They teamed up to beat the other super teams which were unbeatable on their own, imo.

What other "super" teams are you referring to? The Heat are the first, collusion based super team, imo.

Spurs - drafted and developed very well
OKC - drafted and developed very well
Celtics - accumulated assets then traded them in for vet stars
Lakers - Drafted Kobe then traded for Pau Gasol
Dallas - Drafted Dirk then traded for Tyson Chandler, signed aging vets like J-Kidd

[Superjudge]

Ok hold on here, before people go into this BS about the morality of the idea that you can stack a team to win, lets remember the whole fiasco at the time.

Lebron James, the little puke he was, staged a nationally televised program, ala Geraldo Rivera cracking Al Capones safe, t omake an announcement about where he intended to play basketball. With the fact that Bosh was already giving Toronto the run around, cleveland and toronto a couple hours from each other so the fan bases crossed over a lot, and there was a shit load of anger there, the egomania that was running wild there was enough to make people wanna....burn jersies. And they did.

Lebron and Bosh, wade not so much, looked like giant assholes, and they were, face it, they held events to celebrate the move they made. this is why the angst was so high about stacking a team, because it was just so blatantly rubbed in the faces of fanbases that supported these guys, their future opponents, and guys like Rose, who believe you should earn your legacy, not arrange it.

There is a grey area in building a championship team through free agency, and there are similarities in many teams, so the debate will go on there, but NO TEAM has ever done what Miami did with the "Decision", it was classless and embarrassing for the players, the team, and the league. All the players have admitted that in one way or another.... so for me, its over.

[Axel]

Ok hold on here, before people go into this BS about the morality of the idea that you can stack a team to win, lets remember the whole fiasco at the time.

Lebron James, the little puke he was, staged a nationally televised program, ala Geraldo Rivera cracking Al Capones safe, t omake an announcement about where he intended to play basketball. With the fact that Bosh was already giving Toronto the run around, cleveland and toronto a couple hours from each other so the fan bases crossed over a lot, and there was a shit load of anger there, the egomania that was running wild there was enough to make people wanna....burn jersies. And they did.

Lebron and Bosh, wade not so much, looked like giant assholes, and they were, face it, they held events to celebrate the move they made. this is why the angst was so high about stacking a team, because it was just so blatantly rubbed in the faces of fanbases that supported these guys, their future opponents, and guys like Rose, who believe you should earn your legacy, not arrange it.

There is a grey area in building a championship team through free agency, and there are similarities in many teams, so the debate will go on there, but NO TEAM has ever done what Miami did with the "Decision", it was classless and embarrassing for the players, the team, and the league. All the players have admitted that in one way or another.... so for me, its over.

Don't forget the post signing on stage celebration with jerseys and fireworks. Most teams use a simple press conference with a team/NBA back-drop, but Miami had to make a show of it.

[mcHAPPY]

One thing often over looked in Cleveland is LeBron had a lot of say in personnel decisions. He was placing pressure on the team to win immediately at all costs with the future be damned (older players, overpaid contracts, no cap space).

But at the same time he had a player option and a right to opt out which Cleveland agreed to. They also bowed down to him and granted his every wish and desire.

You can argue from both ends.

At the end of the day LeBron decided "I can't win on my own right now and I don't want to wait so I'll join two All-NBA talents in free agency." That never happened in the past. It shows a shift in mentality of the current generation. I guess the morals or values behind it only matter if it opposes your own morals and values. I feel confident in saying that majority of late 20's and over likely look negative on the decision and majority of late 20's and under see no issue - which just highlights the generational gap or shift.

[Superjudge]

which is sad

[Axel]

[mcHAPPY]

One thing often over looked in Cleveland is LeBron had a lot of say in personnel decisions. He was placing pressure on the team to win immediately at all costs with the future be damned (older players, overpaid contracts, no cap space).

But at the same time he had a player option and a right to opt out which Cleveland agreed to. They also bowed down to him and granted his every wish and desire.

You can argue from both ends.

At the end of the day LeBron decided "I can't win on my own right now and I don't want to wait so I'll join two All-NBA talents in free agency." That never happened in the past. It shows a shift in mentality of the current generation. I guess the morals or values behind it only matter if it opposes your own morals and values. I feel confident in saying that majority of late 20's and over likely look negative on the decision and majority of late 20's and under see no issue - which just highlights the generational gap or shift.

Just to add to the last paragraph:

Basically people who started to follow the NBA as Iverson, McGrady, etc. became the face of the league likely see no issue.

Those who were following during '80s and '90s (or earlier) likely have issue.

In my opinion of course.

[Superjudge]

ALL part of the Stern era baby. THIS is his legacy, financial success at the expense of quality and tradition.

[magoon]

I know people think that's funny, but Bird had McHale and Parish, Magic had Kareem and James Worthy, and Jordan had Pippen and later Rodman. They didn't "win championships on their own."

[Axel]

I know people think that's funny, but Bird had McHale and Parish, Magic had Kareem and James Worthy, and Jordan had Pippen and later Rodman. They didn't "win championships on their own."

It's less about on their own and more about the collusion of All-NBA players teaming up.

[Fully]

I always thought the criticism from Magic, Bird, MJ, etc towards LeBron in the wake of the decision was a bit ridiculous and showed off a holier than thou mentality.

Magic was drafted - I repeat drafted - to a team that had a still dominant Kareem and another all-star level guy in Wilkes. Within three years, Magic got another all-NBA running mate in James Worthy. Lebron waited for seven years in Cleveland for a championship level team to be put around him, Magic literally didn't have to wait a single game. Bird had Parish, McHale, Hendo, etc. as teammates within his first few seasons in the league. MJ had Pippen, who is better than anyone that Lebron has ever played with in his career.

Now I understand that these teams were created much more naturally than Miami's big 3. However I found it laughable when those past stars made it seem like they were grinding it out on inferior teams in the 80's because they didn't believe in "teaming up with the enemy". They didn't have any tough decisions to make during their career (should I remain loyal or chase success?) because they were given championship quality supporting casts VERY early in their careers. Do we really think that Jordan would have sat on his hands in Chicago for his entire career if they continually failed to put a good team around him?

And this is coming from someone who thought the Decision was a joke and still doesn't like LBJ.

[KeonClark]

I know people think that's funny, but Bird had McHale and Parish, Magic had Kareem and James Worthy, and Jordan had Pippen and later Rodman. They didn't "win championships on their own."

Not to mention Bird, Magic and Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wade, LeBron and Bosh. 3 Generational talents vs 2 and one only had a few miles left on the elite tires (Wade). Wade, LeBron and Bosh is actually the worst 3 of those 4 listed.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Yeah, like Craig said, I think there is a difference between last gasp vet deals and prime time moves. I think it also depends on the circumstance. A team looking to rebuild with youth (think Sonics/Thunder trading away Ray Allen to Boston or Utah letting Karl Malone walk to the Lakers) is very different than abandoning your team like LBJ and CB4 did.

A perfect comparison for hockey fans would be Ray Bourque. He was part of the 'old school', being loyal to his team (Boston) through good times and bad. It wasn't until he was on the eve of retirement that he allowed his GM to trade him (Colorado) to seek out the Cup, which he did. I was never a Bruins fan but respected/admired Bourque throughout his career and was thrilled when Sakik (Avs' captain) let Bourque raise the Cup first (another classy old school player).

Comparing what LBJ did to that type of move, is sickening.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Just to add to the last paragraph:

Basically people who started to follow the NBA as Iverson, McGrady, etc. became the face of the league likely see no issue.

Those who were following during '80s and '90s (or earlier) likely have issue.

In my opinion of course.

I long for those days... I started following the NBA in the mid/late 80's, when teams were known as much by their headline player as they were by their team name.

Larry's Celtics
Magic's Lakers
Isiah's Pistons
Dominique's Hawks
Jordan's Bulls
Ewing's Knicks
Barkley's 76'ers
the Dream's Rockets
Clyde's Blazers
Malone's Jazz
Robinson's Spurs
Millers's Pacers
Payton's Sonics

It was almost as though the team took on the character of their star player on the court, by reputation, and in fans' hearts.