TANK vs ANTI TANK - SUPER THREAD - The Because I Can't Keep Track Edition

[Bendit]

Could also mean that the season is still young, and some teams haven't developed a need for a Lowry-type yet.

Just wait until Deron Williams' busted ankles literally fall off his body....

The Bulls have a need as I see it...Rose gone for year, Mike James the backup just injured, Teague sent to Dleague, Butler normally the sg who could sub as pg is injured. Even Heinrich the starting pg is probably out of pos. and will soon be over worked. But the Bulls tend to be tight and dont panic...though their pg roster seems bleak.

[Axel]

The problem with Boston is that they already have Wallace and Green. Wallace is a player I highly doubt Toronto being willing to absorb. Green gives you better value than Gay, so I don't know why Boston would make that switch, and I'm not sure they'd want to pair any combination of Gay-Green-Wallace together. It just seems like a very unlikely fit.

If Boston did need a SF, I could see something like Hump + Lee + draft pick (maybe the 2015 Clippers pick for one that should be gettable) working out.

I was thinking that Boston would need to do other moves to facilitate any move for Gay. Wallace being the primary issue. Since Green is more of a 3/4 tween, and they have some young bigs, I could see them using Gay at SG.
Rondo, Gay, Green, Sullinger, Olynyk with Bradley off the bench.

[Nilanka]

The Bulls have a need as I see it...Rose gone for year, Mike James the backup just injured, Teague sent to Dleague, Butler normally the sg who could sub as pg is injured. Even Heinrich the starting pg is probably out of pos. and will soon be over worked. But the Bulls tend to be tight and dont panic...though their pg roster seems bleak.

Agreed. Bulls aren't as desperate to "win now" as the Nets.

[KeonClark]

Agreed. Bulls aren't as desperate to "win now" as the Nets.

I think the Bulls window closed with Derek Rose's second straight completely missed season. They'll be in the tank or not to tank threads every day in a couple years too.

[The Great One]

I took this "Summary" from a poster on REALGM, and it basically sums up what happened in the interview.

Summary:
- Had his first child
- Attended Syracuse vs. Indiana game rather than watching Warriors vs. Raptors game.
- Have to fix the collapse that happened in the 4th quarter
- Warriors are unbelievable (trying to cover up Raptors' mistake with Warriors' talent?)
- Job is 82 games, job is to evaluate the team
- Toronto is in a lot of conversations around the league.
- Currently evaluating team, will continue to make calls and communicate with others to figure out how to make the team better or which direction to go.
- WE WILL NOT BE CAUGHT IN NO MAN'S LAND IN NBA (referring to treadmill?)
- One issue he's evaluating is the fact that we have same kind of players in the roster.
- Does not think that there is selfishness in the team, just that the style of the players is causing lack of ball movement.

Well, that's good to hear because finishing in no man's land is the worst possible spot to be.

[white men can't jump]

I was thinking that Boston would need to do other moves to facilitate any move for Gay. Wallace being the primary issue. Since Green is more of a 3/4 tween, and they have some young bigs, I could see them using Gay at SG.
Rondo, Gay, Green, Sullinger, Olynyk with Bradley off the bench.

I see that as possible.

But I also personally have a really hard time seeing a team think that Gay can slide into SG. So far Gay's D has been pretty lazy, and SG is maybe the position where that becomes the biggest liability since they tend to spend so much time running around screens to get free.

[Westvleteren]

Why wait till the deadline? All I want for Christmas is a new starting SF.

LMAO. I see why people feel that way, but what GM wants to take on that contract? I highly doubt he picks up the option if we are tank mode anyway. The Lakers would scoop him up or the Knicks if Melo goes to LA. (did people read this morning that Melo is telling people he's leaving?) Like many of you, I'm not too concerned about wins this year, unless we get too many in the final 10-15 games.

[peanutwoozle]

Winning the lottery isn't about the #1 pick. Perhaps you should read one of the dozens of threads that explains this.

Just a friendly reminder that the raptors still do have a 72.3% chance to make it to the playoffs, 52.9% to win the division and only 1% chance to win the lottery. I repeat 1% at the moment.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

and really, it's also 50/50 if they work out, so now it's down to 0.5% to win the lottery (and I'm not just talking about the 1st overall pick)

[Shrub]

Tanking - Athlete's Perspective

Hey folks,

Things are getting a little heated in that open letter thread and I've stated my position clearly and will leave it at that. I'm not here to be antagonistic. Rather, I just considered another angle that's worth considering:

The players.

How would you feel competing for a city that wants you to lose?

If I were a player on the Toronto Raptors, I would find this forum very discouraging.
I might understand,
but it would be discouraging.

I've been hesitant to say this, but philosophically I think a tank might be the right way to go.
Philosophically.
But we don't live in a logical vacuum and I'm sure DeRozan wouldn't appreciate it much.

It's a strange flavour of support.

[stooley]

The mental side of sports these days seems to be mostly ignored. The ability to generate intense focus for extended periods of time is incredibly difficult and demanding.

I cheer on the raptors all I can when I'm lucky enough to see them live.

I think this reason, along with the importance of asset perception around the league, is why Ujiri is playing his hand close to his chest.

Your point begs the question: is there a big difference, from an athlete's perspective, between losing night in, night out and tanking?

[mcHAPPY]

The reality is most of the players on this roster are going to be out of the league or looking for a new team within the next season or two.

That sounds harsh but it is true.

It is going to be in the players and fans best interests.

[stooley]

Furthermore, as a a former NCAA D1 athlete, I can tell you that if I knew we had to have a bad team my junior year to land a dirty recruit for my senior year, I would not be opposed.

Personal development is just as important to these guys as being on a winning team.

[stooley]

Most people want to tank but they still want players to play hard and compete. Which is messed up in a way. Some people look at it from GM's point of view and some look at it from coach/players point of view. Both are fine imo

Players should still be playing just as hard. They should be focused on developing parts of their game that had been lacking before. Taking games much like a high-intensity practice.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I understand the perspective, but I think players might understand the circumstances of their team better than we give them credit for. For instance, I'm pretty sure that players on certain teams (in any sport) know going into the season that they have no realistic shot at winning the championship (some may feel that same way just about making the playoffs). Players understand where in the team development lifecycle their team is at, and likely understand that expectations need to be modified to reflect their own team's current situation.

As for tanking, how would MU trading away overpaid players or expiring players (ie: Gay & Lowry) come Dec.15 be any different than what half the teams in every pro league do every season, when the trade deadline rolls around? Some teams are contenders, some teams aren't. If the GM for non-contending teams are good, they properly evaluate their team and make moves to improve for next season and beyond, rather than hold out false hope for the current season. This isn't tanking, it's simply effective evaluation and team-building.

In the NBA, this sort of approach is magnified this year, due to the projected talent/depth of the 2014 draft (not to mention that there are roughly 4 clear-cut championships contenders that are in a league of their own, even compared to other likely playoff teams) and the immediate impact that a single player can have in basketball.

If I were a player, I'd be much more discouraged by an organization (ie: GM) that had no clear direction as far as team-building goes or seems to change direction each season. I would think players would appreciate a GM who was frank with them, laying out their vision for the franchise and the strategic direction they plan on taking to achieve that vision... and then actually stick to it! In that case, actions speak far louder than words, which is why I'm so intrigued by the few months between Dec.15 and the trade deadline.

[stooley]

I understand the perspective, but I think players might understand the circumstances of their team better than we give them credit for. For instance, I'm pretty sure that players on certain teams (in any sport) know going into the season that they have no realistic shot at winning the championship (some may feel that same way just about making the playoffs). Players understand where in the team development lifecycle their team is at, and likely understand that expectations need to be modified to reflect their own team's current situation.

As for tanking, how would MU trading away overpaid players or expiring players (ie: Gay & Lowry) come Dec.15 be any different than what half the teams in every pro league do every season, when the trade deadline rolls around? Some teams are contenders, some teams aren't. If the GM for non-contending teams are good, they properly evaluate their team and make moves to improve for next season and beyond, rather than hold out false hope for the current season. This isn't tanking, it's simply effective evaluation and team-building.

In the NBA, this sort of approach is magnified this year, due to the projected talent/depth of the 2014 draft (not to mention that there are roughly 4 clear-cut championships contenders that are in a league of their own, even compared to other likely playoff teams) and the immediate impact that a single player can have in basketball.

If I were a player, I'd be much more discouraged by an organization (ie: GM) that had no clear direction as far as team-building goes or seems to change direction each season. I would think players would appreciate a GM who was frank with them, laying out their vision for the franchise and the strategic direction they plan on taking to achieve that vision... and then actually stick to it! In that case, actions speak far louder than words, which is why I'm so intrigued by the few months between Dec.15 and the trade deadline.

I can see why Colangelo might be frustrating to play for!