TANK vs ANTI TANK - SUPER THREAD - The Because I Can't Keep Track Edition

[consmap]

I understand the perspective, but I think players might understand the circumstances of their team better than we give them credit for. For instance, I'm pretty sure that players on certain teams (in any sport) know going into the season that they have no realistic shot at winning the championship (some may feel that same way just about making the playoffs). Players understand where in the team development lifecycle their team is at, and likely understand that expectations need to be modified to reflect their own team's current situation.

As for tanking, how would MU trading away overpaid players or expiring players (ie: Gay & Lowry) come Dec.15 be any different than what half the teams in every pro league do every season, when the trade deadline rolls around? Some teams are contenders, some teams aren't. If the GM for non-contending teams are good, they properly evaluate their team and make moves to improve for next season and beyond, rather than hold out false hope for the current season. This isn't tanking, it's simply effective evaluation and team-building.

In the NBA, this sort of approach is magnified this year, due to the projected talent/depth of the 2014 draft (not to mention that there are roughly 4 clear-cut championships contenders that are in a league of their own, even compared to other likely playoff teams) and the immediate impact that a single player can have in basketball.

If I were a player, I'd be much more discouraged by an organization (ie: GM) that had no clear direction as far as team-building goes or seems to change direction each season. I would think players would appreciate a GM who was frank with them, laying out their vision for the franchise and the strategic direction they plan on taking to achieve that vision... and then actually stick to it! In that case, actions speak far louder than words, which is why I'm so intrigued by the few months between Dec.15 and the trade deadline.

This. It's one thing to suck because management is incompetent and has no idea where they're going with the team, and another thing to suck because there are better times planned ahead.

[magoon]

This reminds me of DeMar's frustration, which is not unfair because he came to a team that was floundering and supposedly rebuilding and he's understandably impatient because he wants to win.

Were I Masai, I would work out a potential trade for DeMar - presumably to a team looking to make playoffs - and then invite him to my office for a chat. Tell him about the trade (and what Toronto would get for him - DeMar should bring a good payoff, so the point is to flatter him a little).

Then tell him "look, we need to rebuild. We're not going to be competitive for at least the next two years. Probably three. You're 24 and just entering your prime. Do you want to stay here, improve your game even more, and be a Toronto sports hero but lose out on some playoff years, or do you want to go to INSERT TEAM HERE and take a shot at playoffs? I'm not giving you the final call but I want to know which course of action you'd prefer. No wrong answers, either."

Then take his answer into account and make the decision.

[Bendit]

Another harsh reality using the narrative "professional sports is also entertainment" is how to boundary the paying customer's reactions to really crappy performances. This maybe unfair....comparing going to a Broadway play or Cirque de Soleil show (also themed as entertainment), paying big money and the performers consistently poop the stage. Apart from a demand for refunds the shows would close. Now that is harsh. I also realize the reality of differences between the "entertainments" but as with the actors in the examples the players have reached the pinnacle of their sport/art form and paid millions in compensation ....so what responsibility do they shoulder for the collective output of their performances all the while with guaranteed salaries and the ability to eventually move on to another team....unless of course they have been under performing too long. I think most athletes especially on bad teams are actually get innured to fan criticism....especially on blogs.

I write the above in the vacuum of the business which is professional sports while fully recognizing the human elements involved.

[rapfan10]

Anti tankers are here!!!

Wanna get a reaction are 99% of these forum people are pro tankers and I don't care what u guys saying. Proud to be a antitanker because
A. I don't know u guys
B. U don't know me
C. Tanking is not the right direction to go for the 10000000000th time

Go have fun guys slamming what I say cause I'm proud to be one of those 1% of people who don't wanna tank.

[stooley]

Another harsh reality using the narrative "professional sports is also entertainment" is how to boundary the paying customer's reactions to really crappy performances. This maybe unfair....comparing going to a Broadway play or Cirque de Soleil show (also themed as entertainment), paying big money and the performers consistently poop the stage. Apart from a demand for refunds the shows would close. Now that is harsh. I also realize the reality of differences between the "entertainments" but as with the actors in the examples the players have reached the pinnacle of their sport/art form and paid millions in compensation ....so what responsibility do they shoulder for the collective output of their performances all the while with guaranteed salaries and the ability to eventually move on to another team....unless of course they have been under performing too long. I think most athletes especially on bad teams are actually get innured to fan criticism....especially on blogs.

I write the above in the vacuum of the business which is professional sports while fully recognizing the human elements involved.

I would say that those player's which are bad enough to "poop the stage" are quickly out of a job or aren't drafted at all. These are the 2nd round guys who get cut after a couple of years. The raptors aren't a disaster on broadway, they're just not winning any awards.

[stooley]

Wanna get a reaction are 99% of these forum people are pro tankers and I don't care what u guys saying. Proud to be a antitanker because
A. I don't know u guys
B. U don't know me
C. Tanking is not the right direction to go for the 10000000000th time

Go have fun guys slamming what I say cause I'm proud to be one of those 1% of people who don't wanna tank.

Good for you!

[Bendit]

I would say that those player's which are bad enough to "poop the stage" are quickly out of a job or aren't drafted at all. These are the 2nd round guys who get cut after a couple of years. The raptors aren't a disaster on broadway, they're just not winning any awards.

I certainly dont want to overly dramatize/compare this Raptors team to the Broadway fail...but there is context in the OP and for me this is the reaction on these forums and elsewhere of the "disaster" at GSW. That was in my view a "poop the stage" performance. A freezeup. Hope they make a comeback.

[wallz]

I wouldn't mind playing for a terrible team and be a part of the richest 1% of the population in North America

[stooley]

I wouldn't mind playing for a terrible team and be a part of the richest 1% of the population in North America

They put a lot of work in man. When you devote your entire life to one single thing, it's nice to get results.

[MixxAOR]

Bro we're not Liberals and Conservative over here. It's not election. It's just an opinion on direction of a team. Masai has control and we don't. So it doesn't matter what we believe. Enjoy the games.

[Chr1s1anL]

Seriously.

So many Raptor fans are putting their nose up to the likes of Philly, Boston, Charlotte, Orlando, Phoenix, Detroit, or Washington?

Guess what pro-stay the course?

All those teams who are supposedly tanking or just plain bad have as many wins or MORE than Toronto! IMAGINE!

But haven't the Raptors had injuries? Ummm, nope.
But haven't the Raptors played a tonne of games on the road? Ummm, nope. 3-6 at home, 3-5 on the road.

I'm confused then. Why aren't they winning?


PSSSSSST...... they suck.

Everybody on this forum pointed it out that we had a tough schedule to begin season.


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[gametime]

"Fool's gold" is the key to remember here. The franchise will be set back another five years if they can't find a way to snag one of the top five picks in this year's top heavy draft. 'Draft's like this don't come around all the time. MU knows that. Let time do it's thing. He'll get it done.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Wanna get a reaction are 99% of these forum people are pro tankers and I don't care what u guys saying. Proud to be a antitanker because
A. I don't know u guys
B. U don't know me
C. Tanking is not the right direction to go for the 10000000000th time

Go have fun guys slamming what I say cause I'm proud to be one of those 1% of people who don't wanna tank.

I'm honestly curious what direction you propose, as an alternative to the multi-prong, multi-year 'tanking' strategy that has been laid out in detail by several pro-tankers (myself included).

It's one thing for people to say they're opposed to "tanking", but it's another thing to say what it is you are in support of (or would be).

[Sig]

should've ended your post with *drops the mic*

[Raptorsss]

The Bulls have Noah, the ghost of Rose and Butler to move forward with. Thibodeau is going to pull a Doc Rivers and get out of Chicago, because the writings on the wall. They have to blow-up that team.

Also, I'm going to enjoy this Raptors season and avoid overreacting to any wins or losses. I have a tentative trust in Masai going forward. Also, Masai has mentioned that this teams problem is duplication of talent. So, besides Demar/Rudy is there anyone else? Amir/Tyler maybe?