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The Nets Bad Karma & My Salmons Disdain!

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  • #16
    RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    Re: the first bold, what is the "it" that Lillard has? Another immeasurable observation. I would say he has elite skill. That's why he was successful yesterday.

    .
    Poise.

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    • #17
      iblastoff wrote: View Post
      oh ok. so every opinion you just presented is 'factual' but everything i said was just opinion. well this is going to go nowhere then.

      lets just leave it as this. the LACK OF EXPERIENCE definitely hurt the raptors, due in part to our skill level being not high enough to compensate.

      meanwhile, portland has some serious elite players and DESPITE some lack of experience, they make up for it through skill.

      but i still say saying experience is overrated is just bizarre. theres a reason why doing something over and over again makes you better. if that doesn't count for anything then all rookies/sophomores should never really improve over the years then.
      This really is going nowhere, but this is just more opinion. Simply playing in playoff games has no bearing on becoming a better playoff performer. Your point about rookies and sophomores is another general statement. There are lots of players that don't improve over the years despite receiving playing time early in their careers. Improvement does not come from experiencing situations. It comes from making weaknesses become strengths. Zero playoff experience is not a weakness. It might hinder strengths to some degree (nerves, intimidation, things you pointed out), but it's something we've created and assumed to make sense of poor outcomes.

      Your point about Portland is the exact point I'm trying to make. Skill set should be the priority when deciding lineups whether it's the playoffs or the first game of the season. If you have better players with more skill, let them play. If experience is such a big factor, then let's grab a bunch of guys out of retirement with huge playoff resumes. They won't be able to run or jump, but at least Casey will trust them to "make veteran decisions"!
      There's math, and everything else is debatable.

      @clericalbeats

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      • #18
        BigCamB wrote: View Post
        Poise.
        Again, what is poise? It's an innate characteristic that can't be measured or understood. It's an assumption used to explain an outcome. Does John Salmons have poise? How do you get more poise? Does experience guarantee poise?

        All I'm getting at is Casey needs to control the things he can. Matchups, defensive strategies, minute management, timeouts, after timeout plays etc.
        There's math, and everything else is debatable.

        @clericalbeats

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        • #19
          RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
          Again, what is poise? It's an innate characteristic that can't be measured or understood. It's an assumption used to explain an outcome. Does John Salmons have poise? How do you get more poise? Does experience guarantee poise?

          All I'm getting at is Casey needs to control the things he can. Matchups, defensive strategies, minute management, timeouts, after timeout plays etc.
          Pretty obvious and easy to read actually. Lillard is always assured and in control. His demeanour never changes, he's never too up or down emotionally and he never appears to get flustered regardless of what is happening around him. That is poise. He's young but very mature. This gives him a great chance to utilise his skills in the most pressure situations (playoffs, crunch time etc) despite his young age.

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          • #20
            BigCamB wrote: View Post
            Pretty obvious and easy to read actually. Lillard is always assured and in control. His demeanour never changes, he's never too up or down emotionally and he never appears to get flustered regardless of what is happening around him. That is poise. He's young but very mature. This gives him a great chance to utilise his skills in the most pressure situations (playoffs, crunch time etc) despite his young age.
            Again, I think you're missing my point. Your description of poise is great, albeit it is an opinion. Which is basically my argument with Casey's choice of riding Salmons. It's his opinion that Salmons has these innate abilities that you might call poise. These abilities can't be proven and even if they could, there is no proof of their positive effect on performance. They are assumptions that fans make to understand outcomes. For every example of a veteran being poised in a clutch moment, I can counter with one of a rookie rushing and making an out of control shot based on skill alone. Pressure situations are the same thing, something that's been created. I'm not saying it isn't there, just that it shouldn't warrant a veteran presence of a more skilled option is all.
            There's math, and everything else is debatable.

            @clericalbeats

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            • #21
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              A 38-year old Vince Carter would be a noticeable upgrade over Salmons. Just saying....
              A 90 year old VC is a massive upgrade over salmons
              #BringBackUzoh

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              • #22
                feet85 wrote: View Post
                A 90 year old VC is a massive upgrade over salmons
                Lol

                Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

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                • #23
                  RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
                  Again, I think you're missing my point. Your description of poise is great, albeit it is an opinion. Which is basically my argument with Casey's choice of riding Salmons. It's his opinion that Salmons has these innate abilities that you might call poise. These abilities can't be proven and even if they could, there is no proof of their positive effect on performance. They are assumptions that fans make to understand outcomes. For every example of a veteran being poised in a clutch moment, I can counter with one of a rookie rushing and making an out of control shot based on skill alone. Pressure situations are the same thing, something that's been created. I'm not saying it isn't there, just that it shouldn't warrant a veteran presence of a more skilled option is all.
                  Ok. It's obvious that there is no way to isolate the effect of experience on the outcome of a game. There still isn't a stat that can isolate the effect of a single player on a game.

                  But anyone who's ever played sports knows that being there and having done that, helps a player get set in the mental state which allows him to perform at the top of his ability. Obviously though some inexperienced players can sill focus in the heat of the playoffs. Like the way an open jump shot is easier, but some players still make contested ones.

                  There's a big difference between underlying causes and the outcomes that they produce.

                  You're saying that the impact of skill is more quantifiable than experience. This isn't true. All you've done is describe results, and explained them as being the result of skill.

                  On top of that, most of your arguments are anecdotal.

                  You may have a point that it's overrated, but there's no way experience isn't a factor. You're the one claiming that experience has zero value, so the burden of proof should be on you.
                  Last edited by stooley; Mon Apr 21, 2014, 10:46 PM.
                  "Bruno?
                  Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                  He's terrible."

                  -Superjudge, 7/23

                  Hope you're wrong.

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                  • #24
                    RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
                    Again, I think you're missing my point. Your description of poise is great, albeit it is an opinion. Which is basically my argument with Casey's choice of riding Salmons.
                    I agree with you, I wasn't really weighing into the Salmons debate, just describing the "it" that Lillard has that go beyond his pure basketball skills.
                    It's an opinion yeh, but one that can easily be made from watching a number of Lillard games.
                    If Ross didn't get in foul trouble, then I doubt Salmons would get as many minutes as he did anyway. He wasn't in the game in the last quarter at all so Casey wasn't riding Salmons when it mattered most. You can make a different argument that Ross should've been in there over Vasquez, although Vasquez was playing well offensively.

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