Why "selling high" on DeMar doesn't make sense

[stooley]

Even just looking at the 4 playoffs games thus far, DeRozan is shooting 36% from the field and 18% from 3pt range, while playing horrendous defense for the most part and contributing very little in the way of peripheral stats. Basically, his game has regressed to exactly what people have complained about for years, to the point where he's had stretches of being Rudy 'black hole' Gay bad. If not for the appearances at the charity stripe (for all the reffing conspiracy theorists out there, I've been happy with the number of 'bailout' calls DeRozan has been getting), his stat line would be absolutely dreadful.

Just to balance out this post a little, I wanna remind everyone that BKN is completely scheming to shut down DD. So far it's working, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.

[DanH]

Just to balance out this post a little, I wanna remind everyone that BKN is completely scheming to shut down DD. So far it's working, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.

Yes, and he's playing straight into their schemes, taking the tough shots, forcing his play, trying to dribble out of traps, instead of being a good teammate and passing the ball - unlike all season where he made such strides. Sad to see him go away from the improvements he made when it really matters.

[stooley]

Yes, and he's playing straight into their schemes, taking the tough shots, forcing his play, trying to dribble out of traps, instead of being a good teammate and passing the ball - unlike all season where he made such strides. Sad to see him go away from the improvements he made when it really matters.

Yeah, he's not dealing with it well. But the fact that he even merits that kind of attention means something.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Just to balance out this post a little, I wanna remind everyone that BKN is completely scheming to shut down DD. So far it's working, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.

Fair enough. I don't know whether it's on DC or DeRozan or both, but the inability to adjust and continually playing right into the defensive plan, speaks to a lack of BB-IQ. If it's on DeRozan and his inability to read the play and/or execute, then he's a 'bad' player for a whole other reason. Good teams, good coaches and good players can read the court and adapt, making the right play. Forcing the issue, playing an increasingly selfish ISO-game and taking poor and/or contested shots, is hardly the sign of a truly good player. Again, so far throughout the series, I've been blaming DC & DD equally.

[mcHAPPY]

Yeah, he's not dealing with it well. But the fact that he even merits that kind of attention means something.

I'm not sure if anyone is questioning that.

There is no doubt he improved and far beyond some of our (me! me!) wildest expectations.

However, returning to the poor play that plagued his first 4 years in the league is not encouraging.

Hopefully he watched the game tape and really focused on the 4th quarter in game 4.

[RYE]

Ya don't sell Demar short for his AllStar nod. He deserved it. All your "what if" scenarios are silly and we could make up tons of them to support different arguments. What if he played in a large market in the US and got more media coverage?

Here are some facts:
- He IS an all-star now
- He has a great attitude and work ethic
- He has improved statistically and intangibly every year in the league and wants to do what it takes to continuously improve
- 3rd in the East in scoring
- 1st in the East in FTA & FTM
- One of ONLY TWO players in the East to average 20+ pts, 4+ rbs, 4+ asts. (the other is Lebron)
- Has a GREAT contract.
- Loves playing in Toronto and for his teammates.

[stooley]

I'm not sure if anyone is questioning that.

There is no doubt he improved and far beyond some of our (me! me!) wildest expectations.

However, returning to the poor play that plagued his first 4 years in the league is not encouraging.

Hopefully he watched the game tape and really focused on the 4th quarter in game 4.

Yes, yes lol. You're really going on the rehabilitation tour huh? Haha

Now, I agree DD isn't playing all that great right now, so that's not what I'm arguing (disclaimer), I'm just saying DD is being put under new and very difficult circumstances.

He's not reaaalllly returning to the poor play from before because he wasn't ever trapped as aggressively or consistently as he has been this series.

It's more him having trouble adapting to a playoff style game where the opponent has studied you, found your weaknesses and is pushing you towards them. Hopefully, this at least pushes him to broaden his options this summer.

Like he has to either dish out a pass as soon as he gets the ball, which he's not used to, or dribble through the trap (which he's terrible at). I don't think DD's the only guy in the league who would struggle through the type of defensive attention he's getting. I know it's not the same, but just look at KD's and RW's drop in shooting these playoffs. When you're the top option and have guys dogging you all game, you REALLY have to step it up.

[mcHAPPY]

Ya don't sell Demar short for his AllStar nod. He deserved it. All your "what if" scenarios are silly and we could make up tons of them to support different arguments. What if he played in a large market in the US and got more media coverage?

Here are some facts:
- He IS an all-star now
- He has a great attitude and work ethic
- He has improved statistically and intangibly every year in the league and wants to do what it takes to continuously improve
- 3rd in the East in scoring
- 1st in the East in FTA & FTM
- One of ONLY TWO players in the East to average 20+ pts, 4+ rbs, 4+ asts. (the other is Lebron)
- Has a GREAT contract.
- Loves playing in Toronto and for his teammates.

Here is one fact:

- In a league where everyone agrees "it is a business" you don't make decisions with your heart.

That might seem cold, callous, and calculated but I'm a Toronto Raptor fan. I want what is best for the Raptors.

[Joey]

Here is one fact:

- In a league where everyone agrees "it is a business" you don't make decisions with your heart.

That might seem cold, callous, and calculated but I'm a Toronto Raptor fan. I want what is best for the Raptors.

I think we all want what's best for the Raptors ... its the disparity in what is agreed to be "best" where the debate lies.

It could very easily be argued that showing loyalty to a loyal player, who happens to be an All-Star and one of the top players in the conference, is a great business decision and is in the best interests of the franchise.

[RYE]

Here is one fact:

- In a league where everyone agrees "it is a business" you don't make decisions with your heart.

That might seem cold, callous, and calculated but I'm a Toronto Raptor fan. I want what is best for the Raptors.

What does making decisions with your heart have to do with it? Looking at who he is, and his numbers, I think there are only 2 guys in the draft who MIGHT be capable of matching what Demar has done: Wiggins and Parker. The fact remains that Demar HAS matched what Demar has done. PS...I am cold and callous and calculated

[sleepz]

Nailed it.

Having suffered through so-called elite talents like Bosh and VC, who had serious limitations as leaders, you cannot underestimate the value of having guys like Lowry, Amir and DD as the current leaders of the team. That's where you get the San Antonio effect. Young guys coming in have no choice but to follow the example set by the leaders (hard work, tough-minded, unselfishness, .....) and this will maximize low 1st round and 2nd round picks into value assets for the Raps or as trade chips.

You look at Memphis. So much of that team's character is all about following the mindset and traits of Marc Gasol. Memphis has shown sustainable success, even without elite draft picks and they now have OKC on the ropes. Regardless of whether or not they take out OKC, Memphis can definitely compete with them, or any other team in the NBA as legitimate title contenders.

That said, as an aside, I could easily see the NBA making sure the Durant gets out of the 1st round.

Bosh and VC were elite talents. Carter more than Bosh but when you refer to their 'limitations' as leaders what is the significance of this? Your best players don't have to be leaders, they just have to be best players and difference makers. The "San Antonio" effect is having 3 HOF'ers and one of the greatest coaches ever. Don't know if you can say leadership is the driving force behind the Spurs success.

You're assuming that guys like Lowry, Amir and Demar will create this type of atmosphere in TO. Not sure it's a suitable comparison at all really. The Spurs guys have huge track records. Toronto has had one season of success when everything has lined up well for them. we haven't even gotten into contract time yet. What if Lowry left (a possibility)? Were you saying the same things about Lowry last season?

So much of Memphis success is based on the TALENT of Gasol, Randolph, Conley, and they know who they are as a team (defensive minded, inside out on offence) Gasol is an elite talent. Randolph has been an elite talent. Conley is one of the underrated pg's in the league. Allen is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.

"Leadership' and chemistry are all good things for teams to have but a lot is being made of intangibles, without recognizing that its the talent and abilities that will determine if you are a real contender vs being a sometimes playoff team.

[sleepz]

Why do you place such a high-value on all-star game appearances?

I personally find that come all-star time, too much emphasis is placed on basic stats (ie: PPG) and popularity.

The crux of the ongoing DeRozan debate has never been about his abilities, character, work ethic, etc... but rather about his style of game (ie: one-dimensional scorer, inefficient scorer, etc...). I think a lot of those questions still exist, regardless of how many all-star appearances he makes.

Even just looking at the 4 playoffs games thus far, DeRozan is shooting 36% from the field and 18% from 3pt range, while playing horrendous defense for the most part and contributing very little in the way of peripheral stats. Basically, his game has regressed to exactly what people have complained about for years, to the point where he's had stretches of being Rudy 'black hole' Gay bad. If not for the appearances at the charity stripe (for all the reffing conspiracy theorists out there, I've been happy with the number of 'bailout' calls DeRozan has been getting), his stat line would be absolutely dreadful.

The most frustrating part with DeRozan is that he has shown glimpses of awesomeness, whether it's more efficient scoring, improved 3pt shooting, defensive focus, team-oriented play with huge jump in assists, etc... This entire thread is a big 'what if' discussion, which ultimately revolves around a single question: will DeRozan ever be able to address all his weaknesses at once, in an ongoing, consistent basis? If the answer winds up being yes, then he's a keeper. If the answer winds up being no, then there might never be a better time to 'sell high'. There's no right or wrong answer, at least at this moment in time, since none of us can see the future.

Thought that was a very objective and accurate post.

[.40 Cal Flakes]

Game 5 on home turf, potential to take the series lead and here we are talking about the pros and cons of trading our All Star player. smfh

Oh and for the record if you are one the pro trade DeMar guys, well feel free to join another forum:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=23

*Point being now is not the time for that talk

#WeTheNorth

[JawsGT]

Bosh and VC were elite talents. Carter more than Bosh but when you refer to their 'limitations' as leaders what is the significance of this? Your best players don't have to be leaders, they just have to be best players and difference makers. The "San Antonio" effect is having 3 HOF'ers and one of the greatest coaches ever. Don't know if you can say leadership is the driving force behind the Spurs success.

You're assuming that guys like Lowry, Amir and Demar will create this type of atmosphere in TO. Not sure it's a suitable comparison at all really. The Spurs guys have huge track records. Toronto has had one season of success when everything has lined up well for them. we haven't even gotten into contract time yet. What if Lowry left (a possibility)? Were you saying the same things about Lowry last season?

So much of Memphis success is based on the TALENT of Gasol, Randolph, Conley, and they know who they are as a team (defensive minded, inside out on offence) Gasol is an elite talent. Randolph has been an elite talent. Conley is one of the underrated pg's in the league. Allen is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league.

"Leadership' and chemistry are all good things for teams to have but a lot is being made of intangibles, without recognizing that its the talent and abilities that will determine if you are a real contender vs being a sometimes playoff team.

All those players in bold, as well as Pop, of course, are the leaders of their teams. They don't get where they have without them being leaders, regardless of their talent. I think this is especially true with the Spurs. You don't get to have, and retain, 3 HOF'ers (4 if you include D. Robinson) as well as one of the longest tenured coaches in professional sports without insane leadership, right from the top. There is a reason why the Spurs retained those players over the years, and a reason why the franchise seems to be able to get more out of their role players than others (eg. S. Jackson, M. Bonner)...leadership.

I don't necessarily disagree with the points you made, but I think the examples you chose are not the best ones.

[JawsGT]

Game 5 on home turf, potential to take the series lead and here we are talking about the pros and cons of trading our All Star player. smfh

Oh and for the record if you are one the pro trade DeMar guys, well feel free to join another forum:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=23

*Point being now is not the time for that talk

#WeTheNorth

lol, it will never stop until he is traded.