Why "selling high" on DeMar doesn't make sense

[imanshumpert]

Meh.

The fact remains that most of the pro-trade DeMar camp would've traded him like 2 seasons ago for next-to-nothing. Seems like the other camp has a better grasp of what to do with DeMar and what not to.

And no I'm not against trading DeMar, I'm against trading DeMar for a mediocre return or one that's based almost entirely on luck. Get me a top 5 pick for him (which is not going to happen) and then we can talk.

[mcHAPPY]

Meh.

The fact remains that most of the pro-trade DeMar camp would've traded him like 2 seasons ago for next-to-nothing. Seems like the other camp has a better grasp of what to do with DeMar and what not to.

And no I'm not against trading DeMar, I'm against trading DeMar for a mediocre return or one that's based almost entirely on luck. Get me a top 5 pick for him (which is not going to happen) and then we can talk.

Who is for trading DeRozan for next-to-nothing?

*crickets*

[imanshumpert]

Who is for trading DeRozan for next-to-nothing?

*crickets*

I didn't say "next-to-nothing".

I said a mediocre return (ie. the thread I saw that suggested trading him for Waiters or Po and a bad contract). Or one based on luck (trading him for a #7 pick --- your trade --- that has a low chance of being an all-star ever).

[Pele]

#F*ck3dayPlayoffLayoff

The irony is that the thread was started by a pro-DeRozan poster. You can't blame the mob when pitchforks are being handed out for free! lol

Hey Calgary Raps Fan.

I'm coming out to Calgary from Toronto on Friday to work on a 1yr project.

I've never been to Calgary before. Could you tell me what bar will be playing the Raptors game on Friday night?

[mcHAPPY]

I didn't say "next-to-nothing".

I said a mediocre return (ie. the thread I saw that suggested trading him for Waiters or Po and a bad contract). Or one based on luck (trading him for a #7 pick --- your trade --- that has a low chance of being an all-star ever).

Read man read

#7
Plumlee
Right to flip with Phoenix or LA in 2015

That was my trade in the trade forum not DD for #7.... Jesus h Christ

Vonleh develops with Amir and maybe hansbrough/PP on roster
Solid back up C
And who knows what 2015 brings

Maybe

[special1]

Read man read

#7
Plumlee
Right to flip with Phoenix or LA in 2015

That was my trade in the trade forum not DD for #7.... Jesus h Christ

Vonleh develops with Amir and maybe hansbrough/PP on roster
Solid back up C
And who knows what 2015 brings

Maybe

Ewwww

All because YOU have a problem with the dude's game? I think it's time to admit that you just don't get it. You never even saw this coming did you? You were ignorant or blind to his growth over the last year while it was pretty obvious to others.

It must suck to be wanting something (Demar's departure) for so long and never getting it....All because you hate his game.

Demar is about this close to a superstar and nobody trades hard-working superstars that love the team while on a very reasonable contract....

Probably good to remember that Demar means more to us than any other franchise. We would need a king's ransom to even consider trading him and honestly your trade (many of them - if not all I've seen) aren't even close.

[stooley]

I mostly defer to Golden's post on this one, he said it better than I can, but:

I agree with that, because the team with a bunch of scrubs has less overall talent than the more well-rounded team. And LBJ probably still goes nuts and gives his team a chance to win, because he really is that talented (read: productive).

That point was in response to your "leadership doesn't elevate scrubs to legends". So I guess I pointed out (in a confusing way) how even small improvements in play in average players can be the difference between a good team and an average one.

No disrespect to the Zen Master but leadership without the 2 HOF'ers, and I don't think it matters.

Look at the years the Lakers were bounced in the 1st round under his 'leadership'. When you take a look at the rosters of the '05 and '06 teams you notice that the players were not as good, hence the team wasn't as good.

Dude. Where are you even coming from. Noone's saying talent doesn't matter, just that other things do too.

[BobLoblaw]

You know, it's May 2014. OP offers a fair enough analysis but at this point Ujiri is looking at specific prospects and studying their tape, not looking at stats of lottery picks 1989-2008.

[mcHAPPY]

You know, it's May 2014. OP offers a fair enough analysis but at this point Ujiri is looking at specific prospects and studying their tape, not looking at stats of lottery picks 1989-2008.

True.

However the OP is a good breakdown of history.



Only thing I'd add is each year is different. You don't know what is going to be available on draft night at what position.

Look at 1998. The top 4 players from that draft were selected 9, 10, 5, and 4.

Basketball has clear winners every night -- except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

I feel confident in Masai and Weltman. Their careers have been built on scouting and each have shown ability to find talent throughout the draft.

[golden]

Read man read

#7
Plumlee
Right to flip with Phoenix or LA in 2015

That was my trade in the trade forum not DD for #7.... Jesus h Christ

Vonleh develops with Amir and maybe hansbrough/PP on roster
Solid back up C
And who knows what 2015 brings

Maybe

Whoa there, Matt. That's selling DD at pennies on the dollar.

We went through this a while ago. DD is right on the fringe of the uber-elite 'scorers'. Not shooters, but scorers. He's in the same tier offensively as Kyrie Irving and Paul George, based on USG/ORTG. Kyrie Irving is probably the best DD comparable, since his defense is also average-to-below average. And there's absolutely NO way the Cavs (as inept as they are), would give up Irving for that bag of beads.

Honestly, you need to re-calibrate. DD is the leading scorer and all-star of a playoff team. I know you tried to make a comparison to the Sixers 'sell-high' with Jrue Holiday, but that ship sailed a long time ago. Holiday is not even in the same conversation as DD. I used to be on the fence with Demar, if not somewhat anti-Demar, as to whether he was net-positive, negative or neutral factor. But the eye-test, the analytics and most importantly, the wins, all point to the same conclusion: Derozan has improved A LOT and is a huge contributor to the success of this team. And I think there is still room for improvement.

[mcHAPPY]

Whoa there, Matt. That's selling DD at pennies on the dollar.

We went through this a while ago. DD is right on the fringe of the uber-elite 'scorers'. Not shooters, but scorers. He's in the same tier offensively as Kyrie Irving and Paul George, based on USG/ORTG. Kyrie Irving is probably the best DD comparable, since his defense is also average-to-below average. And there's absolutely NO way the Cavs (as inept as they are), would give up Irving for that bag of beads.

Honestly, you need to re-calibrate. DD is the leading scorer and all-star of a playoff team. I know you tried to make a comparison to the Sixers 'sell-high' with Jrue Holiday, but that ship sailed a long time ago. Holiday is not even in the same conversation as DD. I used to be on the fence with Demar, if not somewhat anti-Demar, as to whether he was net-positive, negative or neutral factor. But the eye-test, the analytics and most importantly, the wins, all point to the same conclusion: Derozan has improved A LOT and is a huge contributor to the success of this team. And I think there is still room for improvement.

You realize I ended my post with "maybe" ?

You realize this was imanshumpert telling only part of the story in not only another thread but another forum?

I think Cialis could do a commercial regarding erections and DeRozan fan boys.

Regarding bold: no shit. He plays more minutes than anybody. But my comment about him these last few days are they relate to the Raptors winning have been 100% spot on.... *self high five* His ball hogging ISO ways in the playoffs through five games have been a drastic net negative on the team. When DD plays as part of the team and selective in his opportunities to score (while still being aggressive, of course) I have no issue with him.... in fact I love it.

And yes, I do recall going through this a while ago. That discussion has drastically altered my view on DD and his value. Unfortunately the first 3 and 3/4 games of the playoffs were horrible and the only way to defend his play has been to say, "Yeah, well, look at KD and Westbrook!!!" Deflection and redirection at its finest.

[stooley]

Regarding bold: no shit. He plays more minutes than anybody. But my comment about him these last few days are they relate to the Raptors winning have been 100% spot on.... *self high five* His ball hogging ISO ways in the playoffs through five games have been a drastic net negative on the team. When DD plays as part of the team and selective in his opportunities to score (while still being aggressive, of course) I have no issue with him.... in fact I love it.

I think he's still easily a net-positive compared to a replacement level player. Definitely not as much as I'd like though.

[mcHAPPY]

I think he's still easily a net-positive compared to a replacement level player. Definitely not as much as I'd like though.

That is kind of irrelevant though isn't it?

He has shown he can be a huge positive, he just needs to play with recognition of his ability and the situation.

When he does that the Raptors are VERY tough.

[stooley]

That is kind of irrelevant though isn't it?

He has shown he can be a huge positive, he just needs to play with recognition of his ability and the situation.

When he does that the Raptors are VERY tough.

I'm not sure what it's irrelevant to. (honestly, not being snarky)

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not sure what it's irrelevant to. (honestly, not being snarky)

I probably misunderstood.

What do you mean by replacement level player? Like a DD sub off the current roster?