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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    tbh I don't feel bad about missing out on Giannis.
    He definitely needs a scoring wing better than Middleton or Holiday to play with, but Bud's schemes aren't good for Giannis in the Playoffs, it doesn't and hasn't worked for the last few years.

    I can see Bud getting fired after this season.

    Comment


    • A.I wrote: View Post

      He definitely needs a scoring wing better than Middleton or Holiday to play with, but Bud's schemes aren't good for Giannis in the Playoffs, it doesn't and hasn't worked for the last few years.

      I can see Bud getting fired after this season.
      What playoff scheme is there, though, that can hide Giannis weaknesses in the playoffs? It’s becoming clear that he really should be a second or third banana, when it comes to scoring. Rich man’s Ben Simmons, basically.

      Comment


      • golden wrote: View Post

        What playoff scheme is there, though, that can hide Giannis weaknesses in the playoffs? It’s becoming clear that he really should be a second or third banana, when it comes to scoring. Rich man’s Ben Simmons, basically.
        Giannis cannot be the alpha. But he's also a center in today's NBA. They need to move Lopez out of there.. get Giannis in the paint.. and not out on the perimeter. Him being a point forward is not the optimal way of using his skills. He's a good passer but you create a wall, he can't drive to the rim and will take those shots.

        Use him in PnR action as the roller. Once he's near the rim he's automatic. But he should only be shooting sparingly. They really need to use him like Phoenix uses Ayton. Which means he'll never win an MVP again, but he could still win a ring that way.

        Bucks are really in trouble though. They have locked into the Giannis/Middleton/Holiday core, with no real way of improving. And I don't see ring chasers going there anymore.



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        • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
          If you are the Toronto Raptors do you not feel that your should sue Vince Carter for non support.. Is this the same guy who moped and whined and generally fucked the dog till he forced a horrible trade that we see giving it his all in New Jersey ?

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          • Who was saying the Nets would be vulnerable (to the Raptors even!) if one of the big three went down?
            Regardless of what the regular season showed over and over.

            Nets are a bullchit manufactured juggernaut that may well win it all.

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post

              Giannis cannot be the alpha. But he's also a center in today's NBA. They need to move Lopez out of there.. get Giannis in the paint.. and not out on the perimeter. Him being a point forward is not the optimal way of using his skills. He's a good passer but you create a wall, he can't drive to the rim and will take those shots.

              Use him in PnR action as the roller. Once he's near the rim he's automatic. But he should only be shooting sparingly. They really need to use him like Phoenix uses Ayton. Which means he'll never win an MVP again, but he could still win a ring that way.

              Bucks are really in trouble though. They have locked into the Giannis/Middleton/Holiday core, with no real way of improving. And I don't see ring chasers going there anymore.


              I'm not sure the problem is Giannis - this is a guy who can average 27/14/6 in the playoffs. That's huge.

              "Build a wall" is normally called breaking down the defence. Most teams' initiators would love nothing more than to see two extra defenders converge on a drive. Half your teammates are now wide open. What kind of boggles my mind, because the Bucks have tried to build drive and kick teams with outside shooters, is that they can't counter that simple strategy? What gives? They should still be able to win those series with your main guy putting up those numbers.

              I think it's partly Bud and partly several postseasons now of having various complimentary guys who just don't have 'it.' And not having a nearly good enough second guy. F Middleton. No one wins in the NBA with a second banana like Middleton. Even Lebron needed Kyrie/Love, Bosh/Wade, Anthony Davis. What are we expecting Giannis to do with Middleton? Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, these guys just disappear at the wrong moments and no one's really that surprised because they aren't that good. Look nice in the regular season system though. Giannis needs a couple ballers on his team. They should have kept Brogdon (and would still need more pieces).
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • S.R. wrote: View Post

                I'm not sure the problem is Giannis - this is a guy who can average 27/14/6 in the playoffs. That's huge.

                "Build a wall" is normally called breaking down the defence. Most teams' initiators would love nothing more than to see two extra defenders converge on a drive. Half your teammates are now wide open. What kind of boggles my mind, because the Bucks have tried to build drive and kick teams with outside shooters, is that they can't counter that simple strategy? What gives? They should still be able to win those series with your main guy putting up those numbers.

                I think it's partly Bud and partly several postseasons now of having various complimentary guys who just don't have 'it.' And not having a nearly good enough second guy. F Middleton. No one wins in the NBA with a second banana like Middleton. Even Lebron needed Kyrie/Love, Bosh/Wade, Anthony Davis. What are we expecting Giannis to do with Middleton? Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, these guys just disappear at the wrong moments and no one's really that surprised because they aren't that good. Look nice in the regular season system though. Giannis needs a couple ballers on his team. They should have kept Brogdon (and would still need more pieces).
                It's almost more disappointing for the Bucks on defense, if that's possible. They are rolling out 4 All-Defense players + Middleton (who is solid) and getting punked by the Nets without Harden and with a washed Griffin. The whole Lopez drop coverage scheme just doesn't work in the playoffs against teams that can get hot from the 3-pt line or hit long 2's. I mean, you shouldn't have a situation where KD/Kyrie get theirs AND "The Others" also go off. A great defensive scheme tries to stop both, and a good defensive scheme should at least try to take away one of those. They're doing neither.... again, starting 4 All-Defense players.

                Comment


                • S.R. wrote: View Post

                  I'm not sure the problem is Giannis - this is a guy who can average 27/14/6 in the playoffs. That's huge.

                  "Build a wall" is normally called breaking down the defence. Most teams' initiators would love nothing more than to see two extra defenders converge on a drive. Half your teammates are now wide open. What kind of boggles my mind, because the Bucks have tried to build drive and kick teams with outside shooters, is that they can't counter that simple strategy? What gives? They should still be able to win those series with your main guy putting up those numbers.

                  I think it's partly Bud and partly several postseasons now of having various complimentary guys who just don't have 'it.' And not having a nearly good enough second guy. F Middleton. No one wins in the NBA with a second banana like Middleton. Even Lebron needed Kyrie/Love, Bosh/Wade, Anthony Davis. What are we expecting Giannis to do with Middleton? Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, these guys just disappear at the wrong moments and no one's really that surprised because they aren't that good. Look nice in the regular season system though. Giannis needs a couple ballers on his team. They should have kept Brogdon (and would still need more pieces).
                  Look at their regulars shooting in the playoffs. That's all you need to know. It's a team built around 3-point shooting without reliable, let alone great, shooters. Yeah, the aggregated shooting stats over a regular season are decent but that's not the same as making them against focused, max effort defenses come the spring/summer. Teams just don't care about their shooters.

                  As for not missing Giannis here, put Lowry, OG, FVV, Siakam and Powell around the 3-pt line and see how well the 'wall' works.

                  Comment


                  • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                    Vince, like him or hate him, delivered the mail for years.
                    That the late rob Babcock traded him for shares in the factory that makes magic beans is not on Vince.
                    Griffin ..not so much....
                    What's your point here?
                    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Tue Jun 8, 2021, 10:25 AM.
                    Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

                    Comment


                    • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                      Who was saying the Nets would be vulnerable (to the Raptors even!) if one of the big three went down?
                      Regardless of what the regular season showed over and over.

                      Nets are a bullchit manufactured juggernaut that may well win it all.
                      That was me and it still applies, bucks have always been massively overrated, and they are proving it again. Last night just for fun I fired up nba2k21 and played as the bucks vs nets, and the raps vs nets, guess which one played pretty evenly vs the nets? (The other lost)

                      Comment


                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        It's almost more disappointing for the Bucks on defense, if that's possible. They are rolling out 4 All-Defense players + Middleton (who is solid) and getting punked by the Nets without Harden and with a washed Griffin. The whole Lopez drop coverage scheme just doesn't work in the playoffs against teams that can get hot from the 3-pt line or hit long 2's. I mean, you shouldn't have a situation where KD/Kyrie get theirs AND "The Others" also go off. A great defensive scheme tries to stop both, and a good defensive scheme should at least try to take away one of those. They're doing neither.... again, starting 4 All-Defense players.
                        It's almost like these dumb all-defense awards are dumb and defense is really about a complex set of factors that are difficult to evaluate.

                        But if Budenholzer has the team operating at max capacity then shouldn't the defense be more effective?

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                        • Kagemusha wrote: View Post

                          Or minutes after getting swept.
                          at home.

                          Nick would never allow his team to be humiliated like that.

                          Giannis chose these scrubs over a team with a championship winning coach, a tough veteran PG leader, and many good young 2 way players.
                          Or perhaps he just chose a quarter of a billion dollars ?
                          Hard to say no to that.
                          Canadas election mantra #Dump the Chump

                          Comment


                          • slaw wrote: View Post

                            It's almost like these dumb all-defense awards are dumb and defense is really about a complex set of factors that are difficult to evaluate.

                            But if Budenholzer has the team operating at max capacity then shouldn't the defense be more effective?
                            Bud's systems are built for the regular season when opposing teams don't have the time to game-plan as intensely. His systems are drilled hard and executed to perfection. That racks up regular season wins, but if a team is both a bad matchup and able to figure out the weaknesses, then Bud has no counter. There's not much flexibility or adaptability built in. Bucks just double-down and try to execute their systems even harder in the playoffs.

                            Bud is a lot like D'Antoni. His teams and players largely overachieve in the regular season, so as long as you're not expecting to win championships, he's a good coach.

                            Comment


                            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                              Vince, like him or hate him, delivered the mail for years.
                              That the late rob Babcock traded him for shares in the factory that makes magic beans is not on Vince.
                              Griffin ..not so much....
                              What's your point here?
                              If you blame Griffin, Vince doesn't get a pass imo. I know VC fans don't want to see it that way but it's the truth; two guys who dogged their way out of town, except Vince was closer to his prime and had the better contract.

                              Hey, even Griffin started dunking again, just like Vince. Ask the Piston fans if it's on Detroit management

                              Comment


                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                It's almost more disappointing for the Bucks on defense, if that's possible. They are rolling out 4 All-Defense players + Middleton (who is solid) and getting punked by the Nets without Harden and with a washed Griffin. The whole Lopez drop coverage scheme just doesn't work in the playoffs against teams that can get hot from the 3-pt line or hit long 2's. I mean, you shouldn't have a situation where KD/Kyrie get theirs AND "The Others" also go off. A great defensive scheme tries to stop both, and a good defensive scheme should at least try to take away one of those. They're doing neither.... again, starting 4 All-Defense players.
                                Budenholzer has always used an immutable "pack the paint, allow the 3" defensive scheme, regular season and playoffs. I remember after coming out of the philly series how more relaxed our guys looked shooting the 3 vs the bucks.

                                Sticking to that kind of defence vs the Nets is crazy. From 3 Durant is shooting 45%, Kyrie over 40%, and Joe Harris an insane 47.5%. If you're the bucks you gotta get to these guys on the perimeter. You have an excellent rim protector in Giannis, you don't need the rest of your team packing the paint. They need a complete reversal of their defensive priorities, otherwise it'll be a sweep.
                                2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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