Post Game Thread: Toronto vs Boston-Nov 5th (TOR 110 - BOS 107)

[Jclaw]

stats.nba.com


heres derozans for the game

http://on.nba.com/1Gt41SJ

thanks. that looks about right.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Ya, we're really talking about his decision-making. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be improved by conventional summer training/gym sessions. It basically comes down to meticulously studying game film.

I can understand DeRozan being eager to unleash his new-found offensive repertoire, but the next step of his evolution will need him to understand where and when to attack.

Exactly. It's not about him taking a lesser role or being less aggressive. It's more about him scoring as much or more, on less/better shots. Becoming more of a facilitator and catalyst for the offense would make him a far more dangerous overall player, while making the entire team more of a threat offensively.

Too many people seem to think that if you're not shooting/scoring you're not as important, and that those suggesting DeRozan shoot less must be out to see him marginalized. For me, whenever I suggest DeRozan focus on becoming a more efficient scorer - and in the process become a better facilitator (assists) and catalyst (make the play that starts the full team ball-movement for the best look possible) - I'm actually envisioning him becoming an even more vital part of this team. That's why it's laughable to me when I get labeled a 'hater' by people who can't get past the "shoot less" part.

[Axel]

Casey said in preseason that his trying to speed the game up. Try to get more easy buckets. We've been pushing the pace all season long. I'm pretty sure were up there in fast break points.

speed the game up doesn't mean you run with the Celtics though. We've been a slow team for years, so speeding up means pushing it against teams like Nets (old), Thunder (short-benched) or Pistons (no PG); when it makes sense. But playing against a team that has the best PG in the Eastern Conference, a young stud rookie PG and a decent combo guard isn't the right choice. It's playing to their strength. So pick up the pace a little, but it looked like a track meet out there for long stretches. We aren't the 7 seconds or less Suns. Bad coaching decision.

[Joey]

Exactly. It's not about him taking a lesser role or being less aggressive. It's more about him scoring as much or more, on less/better shots. Becoming more of a facilitator and catalyst for the offense would make him a far more dangerous overall player, while making the entire team more of a threat offensively.

Too many people seem to think that if you're not shooting/scoring you're not as important, and that those suggesting DeRozan shoot less must be out to see him marginalized. For me, whenever I suggest DeRozan focus on becoming a more efficient scorer - and in the process become a better facilitator (assists) and catalyst (make the play that starts the full team ball-movement for the best look possible) - I'm actually envisioning him becoming an even more vital part of this team. That's why it's laughable to me when I get labeled a 'hater' by people who can't get past the "shoot less" part.

Absolutely not the case. At least with me anyway. I just feel that his true value is in his ability to create points, and he is taking shots that we've seen him hit 100x before. Yes he could work on his decision making. Absolutely. That was the point I made a few game threads back, where this is ALL about him figuring out how to be the leader he needs to be. I believe that his 4+ assists from last year is exactly where he should be in terms of being a facilitator. Not to mention we have no idea how many of these plays are called by Casey for Demar to try and get him going.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Absolutely not the case. At least with me anyway. I just feel that his true value is in his ability to create points, and he is taking shots that we've seen him hit 100x before. Yes he could work on his decision making. Absolutely. That was the point I made a few game threads back, where this is ALL about him figuring out how to be the leader he needs to be. I believe that his 4+ assists from last year is exactly where he should be in terms of being a facilitator. Not to mention we have no idea how many of these plays are called by Casey for Demar to try and get him going.

Fair enough. Sometimes watching the game I think DeRozan is as guilty of the part you bolded as anyone. He so badly wants to win and be a big part of helping the team win, but he seems to be stuck on the idea that scoring is the only way to do that. When he becomes able to pick his spots better, it will improve his own scoring efficiency and get the rest of the team more involved, which will both help lead to more wins.

[chico]

Absolutely not the case. At least with me anyway. I just feel that his true value is in his ability to create points, and he is taking shots that we've seen him hit 100x before. Yes he could work on his decision making. Absolutely. That was the point I made a few game threads back, where this is ALL about him figuring out how to be the leader he needs to be. I believe that his 4+ assists from last year is exactly where he should be in terms of being a facilitator. Not to mention we have no idea how many of these plays are called by Casey for Demar to try and get him going.

Interesting topic about his decision making and facilitating. Watching these last two games, I'd not be surprised if he surpasses last season assist numbers. He had a team high 6 last night, that could easily have been 10+ if more guys hit wide open shots. Hell, the previous game only has him at 3 assists, but again it could easily have been 10 in that game! He's doing a great job of breaking down the defense and feeding open shooters, whether that be Ross, Lowry, or others. These past two games, the team has been moving the ball around a LOT, with him leading the way, yet some still shouting "hero ball".

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Interesting topic about his decision making and facilitating. Watching these last two games, I'd not be surprised if he surpasses last season assist numbers. He had a team high 6 last night, that could easily have been 10+ if more guys hit wide open shots. Hell, the previous game only has him at 3 assists, but again it could easily have been 10 in that game! He's doing a great job of breaking down the defense and feeding open shooters, whether that be Ross, Lowry, or others. These past two games, the team has been moving the ball around a LOT, with him leading the way, yet some still shouting "hero ball".

I hope some of these 'winning ugly' games, where his own shooting is off, really serve to illustrate how he can contribute to the team's success even when he's not leading the scoring charge. I definitely think he has it in him, and I hope he begins to realize just how effective he can be when he consistently involves the rest of the team, in the ways you pointed out.

The first game of the season is the microcosm of this: for 3-and-a-half quarters he played the team game, and both he and the team were awesome. Then, when Atlanta made their run in the back half of the 4th quarter, DeRozan tried to put the team on his shoulders to carry them, and doing so almost resulted in the exact opposite thing he was trying to do - help his team win.

Again, he's proven more than capable of being the all-around player and team leader, as opposed to simply being a leading scorer. Now he just needs to truly embrace that nuance and play that way consistently.

[Jclaw]

This sums up the season pretty well, no?

This year's Raptors are a swimmer in trouble. They thrash around for 3 quarters. Then, when you come in to help, they drown you.

— cathalkelly (@cathalkelly) November 6, 2014

[chico]

I hope some of these 'winning ugly' games, where his own shooting is off, really serve to illustrate how he can contribute to the team's success even when he's not leading the scoring charge. I definitely think he has it in him, and I hope he begins to realize just how effective he can be when he consistently involves the rest of the team, in the ways you pointed out.

The first game of the season is the microcosm of this: for 3-and-a-half quarters he played the team game, and both he and the team were awesome. Then, when Atlanta made their run in the back half of the 4th quarter, DeRozan tried to put the team on his shoulders to carry them, and doing so almost resulted in the exact opposite thing he was trying to do - help his team win.

Again, he's proven more than capable of being the all-around player and team leader, as opposed to simply being a leading scorer. Now he just needs to truly embrace that nuance and play that way consistently.

Opening night excitement? Thing is, in that first game, though he may have made a couple of iffy decisions in trying to score, which is his primary role after all, he also had 11 RBs, 3 ASTs, 6 STLs. I'd call that an all around game.

To me, it certainly seems like he's making a concerted effort to play team ball consistently, and I see no reason to think otherwise. He'll get there, especially if guys are knocking down wide open shots he's creating for them. Bigs knocking down bunnies will help too.

Here's another thought I'd like to suggest regarding some of the tough shots he takes. The NBA season isn't a sprint, but a marathon, and the regular season is all about preparing team and individuals for the playoffs. With the way defenses tighten up in the playoffs, I've never seen a team get very far without someone hitting numerous tough shots. If a team doesn't have anybody getting used to taking tough shots during the season, you can't expect them to be able to do it when it's absolutely needed. Just a thought that maybe some need to not jump on the guy for every tough shot he takes. Eventually the team will need him taking those.

[caccia]

I will repeat what I said in the game thread. The second unit is gelling and starting to form an identity. I suggest calling them "The Scraptors" after a well-known screen name.

[chico]

DeRozan shooting under 40% on the season.

I don't have any problem with him taking 25 shots a game, but do they have to be against 3 defenders with 16 seconds left on the clock? Shot selection has been abysmal through 5 games so far. We're getting into Rudy Gay territory.

One game, this last one, is the difference between DeMar's FG% and Lowry's. Prior to this game, they had identical FG%, yet I see nobody talking about Lowry's "abysmal" shot selection and equating him to Rudy.

I think you're being unfair about this "5 games of abysmal shot selection". He's been missing a lot of shots you'd expect him to make, just like the rest of the team. Two or three questionable ones a game does not equate to 5 games of abysmal, imo.

[Superjudge]

heh. I can't argue

[MACK11]

So does anyone have a theory as to why Jared Sullinger plays like Prime Shaq against us?

[Superjudge]

Its a simple theory, but its because he plays like that against everyone, its how he has played his entire life.

[Nilanka]

Here's another thought I'd like to suggest regarding some of the tough shots he takes. The NBA season isn't a sprint, but a marathon, and the regular season is all about preparing team and individuals for the playoffs. With the way defenses tighten up in the playoffs, I've never seen a team get very far without someone hitting numerous tough shots. If a team doesn't have anybody getting used to taking tough shots during the season, you can't expect them to be able to do it when it's absolutely needed. Just a thought that maybe some need to not jump on the guy for every tough shot he takes. Eventually the team will need him taking those.

It's true that the number of tough shots required increases in the playoffs, when defences tighten up. And at that point, the more DeRozan hits, the better shape we'll be.

But I'm not sure I like the idea of wasting possessions during the regular season for him to practice his craft. I think the team's habit of finding/creating the best available shot will be much more beneficial come April.