2022 Playoffs Round 1, Game 4: 76ers @ Raptors, Sat April 23, 2:00pm EST, SN

[JawsGT]

So again my dream scenario is you talk to fred and you convince him to stay off ball. I would then use Gary and trade him for turner straight up in a one for one. I would toss in malachi to make the salary almost identical... you actually may save a tiny bit.


No offence to Gary but Fred (when he plays the right role) is a far more effective shooter and when healthy is a way better defender. If you get the hint that its a problem, again I would do one of the trades I already suggested. where you are getting either turner or sign and trading for Thomas Bryant. or trying to snag brunson.

Honestly? Call me crazy but I'd even consider FVV and GTJ for brunson and powell.

I really don't think Fred would have to be convinced. If nurse wants the ball in Barnes or pascal hands more, then that's what will happen. And we have seen that. Coming off the bench, well, maybe that would require convincing. Hard to believe Fred wouldn't see that as a demotion, he is an all-star now after all. But Fred hasn't been healthy for some time now, and if he was healthy, his playoff performance would likely be better. Same with GTJr. He still isn't well as far as I'm concerned, much better for sure.

Personally, and I've mentioned this well before the playoffs, I hope they make little to no changes to this roster this off-season. Shuffle some roles maybe. Start Precious, have one of Fred or Gary come off the bench. Re sign Chris and thad. Play Flynn more. Given how well the precious/boucher combo have played, maybe find another big to pair with boucher with similar characteristics as precious. Birch isn't that. Champagnie might be though. We have a solid roster and depth imo, just need more experience and time together.

[A.I]

Fred off the bench would be deadly but I think he is too good to come off the bench IF he wants to be a shooter coming off screens.

You don't need him off the bench, but realistically Fred should be the 3rd ball handler behind Pascal and Scottie. That will come as Scottie continues to get better.

Its strange to me some posters think Fred is some selfish player that needs convincing to not take shots or handle the ball.

[planetmars]

I really don't think Fred would have to be convinced. If nurse wants the ball in Barnes or pascal hands more, then that's what will happen. And we have seen that. Coming off the bench, well, maybe that would require convincing. Hard to believe Fred wouldn't see that as a demotion, he is an all-star now after all. But Fred hasn't been healthy for some time now, and if he was healthy, his playoff performance would likely be better. Same with GTJr. He still isn't well as far as I'm concerned, much better for sure.

Personally, and I've mentioned this well before the playoffs, I hope they make little to no changes to this roster this off-season. Shuffle some roles maybe. Start Precious, have one of Fred or Gary come off the bench. Re sign Chris and thad. Play Flynn more. Given how well the precious/boucher combo have played, maybe find another big to pair with boucher with similar characteristics as precious. Birch isn't that. Champagnie might be though. We have a solid roster and depth imo, just need more experience and time together.

And ultimately I think this is what we do. We don't have many assets. A pick in the 30's. The mid-level exception with a pretty weak free agency. No real tradable contracts without gutting the core. Birch is basically it as Chris and Thad are free agents and can choose their destination freely.

The mid level can be used on depth though. Bruce Brown could be in that range. He's a really good role player that can play multiple positions. Although many teams will want him. He's been one of the only Nets bright spots in these playoffs.

[DanH]

are you making your assessments of each player based on the series as a whole or this specific game?

This game.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I really don't think Fred would have to be convinced. If nurse wants the ball in Barnes or pascal hands more, then that's what will happen. And we have seen that. Coming off the bench, well, maybe that would require convincing. Hard to believe Fred wouldn't see that as a demotion, he is an all-star now after all. But Fred hasn't been healthy for some time now, and if he was healthy, his playoff performance would likely be better. Same with GTJr. He still isn't well as far as I'm concerned, much better for sure.

Personally, and I've mentioned this well before the playoffs, I hope they make little to no changes to this roster this off-season. Shuffle some roles maybe. Start Precious, have one of Fred or Gary come off the bench. Re sign Chris and thad. Play Flynn more. Given how well the precious/boucher combo have played, maybe find another big to pair with boucher with similar characteristics as precious. Birch isn't that. Champagnie might be though. We have a solid roster and depth imo, just need more experience and time together.

I think its possible and I hope but would he be mad? This roster with an center like Thomas Bryant could work

[Primer]

People discuss scenarios all the time. When I said the same thing about discussing Nurse in the middle of his contract, many people continued to discuss it. So you know what while I understand and while you are entitled to your opinion.... maybe its alright.

Yeah I think any discussion is fair game at any time. If you don't like what's being discussed don't respond. Pretty damn easy, I do it all the time with Claw posts.

I also don't think saying we should consider moving Fred or Gary for better fits with Scottie as PG is being negative. I'm perfectly capable of being excited about our current playoff run and our offseason options at the same time. Anyone who doesn't like the discussion is free to skip on by to the next post.

[The Claw Reborn]

Yeah I think any discussion is fair game at any time. If you don't like what's being discussed don't respond. Pretty damn easy, I do it all the time with Claw posts.

I also don't think saying we should consider moving Fred or Gary for better fits with Scottie as PG is being negative. I'm perfectly capable of being excited about our current playoff run and our offseason options at the same time. Anyone who doesn't like the discussion is free to skip on by to the next post.

Just cut the bullshit and hypocrisy of this post, was it not you not so long ago that I was discussing options in trading VanVleet before the deadline and there you were trying to moderate it by saying that I was all over the forum talking about it, accused me of trolling…..now fast forward to now and you are saying it is just fair game.

[iblastoff]

so to be fair I have been vocal about either shifting him to a permanent off ball roll next year or trading him before this series. This series just cemented that for me. Those are your options. He isn't a playmaker and I don't think he becomes one in the way that everyone who is a "FVV" guy does. He isn't lowry and won't become lowry. As I keep saying that expectation and comparison isn't fair to FVV and doesn't respect Lowry's legacy.

lol so dumb. remember when people wanted lowry/derozan traded after they were swept vs washington?

this is literally freds first year as the main starting pg and he became an all-star immediately. i think he's earned and deserves more time to prove himself rather than being subject to stupid trade talks.

[TrueTorontoFan]

lol so dumb. remember when people wanted lowry/derozan traded after they were swept vs washington?

this is literally freds first year as the main starting pg and he became an all-star immediately. i think he's earned and deserves more time to prove himself rather than being subject to stupid trade talks.

How is it dumb that I am suggesting that he moves off ball? Also this isn't new for me.

There is a lot that goes into all star, a lot of media shout outs, propaganda etc. Not saying that Fred didn't deserve to be an all-star but that isn't necessarily something that should move someone one way or another.

I have been calling for Fred to be more off ball for the majority of the season. If you read my comment and the thread carefully, I said he needs to be shifted off ball. That is what he is optimal at offensively. That is what he is elite. I have said multiple times that he is a mini Klay. The numbers back it up. The eye test backs it up. He is basically a small SG but a damn good one. Hence I am calling for him to become that on a more than he has. He can still have the same amount of shots he has, but you weigh heavily on his ability to come off screens and relocate.


All I stated in the comment you quoted was in response to someone saying that some of the Freddy sentiment is only informed by the playoffs. Him being injured didn't inform me of anything. How we performed and the ball moved when he was out DID.

I think calling THAT dumb is pretty abrasive and defensive when it doesn't need to be.

If you need a TLDR. I don't want FVV automatically traded. I want him in a different role on the team.

IF he isn't wanting to accept that role then you may have to trade him.