Miles Plumlee Toronto Raptors Bound? Center In Exchange For Terrence Ross Rumored!

[Nilanka]

I've watched more games than probably anyone on this site. Probably 75 of the 82 games every year since the first year, 20 years ago.

I'm in the same boat.

[Since Day 1]

I'm in the same boat.

That's awesome. I'm glad to hear that!

[Since Day 1]

A few points:

1. At a certain point "having the tools" to be an outstanding player stops being anything teams care about. To present dramatic examples of this: Michael Beasley had "all the tools" for years. Josh Smith has "all the tools" right now to be an All-Star player. But Beasley played himself out of the league because he couldn't get it together and J-Smoove is in the process of doing that right now (Houston is better with him off the court than on). Ross has astounding verticals, excellent speed and a very good shooting stroke, and he has the potential to be a decent defender at the 2 (he doesn't have the size to defend the 3). But his basketball IQ is not great and hasn't improved, and the fact that he has the potential to be a good defender doesn't change the fact that he isn't anything more than average.

At a certain point teams stop saying "he's got potential" and switch to "he is what he is," and Ross is approaching that point quickly - he's almost 24, and 24-26 is when players start becoming regarded as mature NBA players for the most part. DeMar managed a relatively late progression to "star player" when he was 24, but that was mostly based on an insane amount of work ethic which Ross hasn't evidenced - and DeMar is still only at the absolute lowest rung of "star."

2. I like Greivis, but Greivis is another fine example of "he is what he is" - decent (if streaky) shooter, good floor sense and facilitator, but doesn't have the speed or the reach to defend the point. The Raptors last year were most successful using Gravy when they let him run the offense from the 2 with Kyle at point. Simply put: it's possible to upgrade from Vasquez at backup guard.

Ennis is a rookie, but he's a rookie who has most of the tools necessary to be an excellent point guard. He's already an excellent defender and facilitator, his basketball IQ is excellent, and although his shooting stroke was considered to be one of his weaknesses in college he still shot with 43 percent accuracy (and 35% from three), which is evidence that with coaching and training there's a good chance he can become a truly excellent shot. The reason Ennis went relatively late in the first round given his talent and performance at Syracuse is because he's not an athletic freak like Elfrid Payton or Dante Exum were, and it's definitely true that Ennis will never become John Wall or Russell Westbrook - but, frankly, there's good odds he can become an Andre Miller or even a Kyle Lowry. There's a reason the Raps were so high on him and it's not because he's Canadian.

3. Greg Steimsma is not a realistic option at backup center: he's a fouling machine, a big man who exists to give fouls so better players won't take them. "He can sort of block shots" does not a decent NBA center make. There's a reason Steamer is making the minimum.

Yes, at a certain point "having the tools" doesn't mean anything but it CLEARLY still means something in Ross' case. He hasn't had the playing time and is on a very short leash because we are in a difficult situation of being in win-now mode and developing talent at the same time. Smith and Beasley are horrible examples. Beasley and Smith were solid players right off the bat who have slowed down recently. If you recall "or not", Smith was considered one of the best defenders in the league for many years early in his career.

Yes Vasquez is what he is at this point in his career. And this in not only my opinion but he is widely known around the NBA as one of the best backup point guards in the league. Tyler Ennis? Sure as a third string point guard, why not.

What I meant about Steimer is give him a chance to see what he can do. We know what Hansborough and Hayes can do, nothing. At least Steimer has the height. He is not an ideal backup centre but he is better than nothing which is what we have at the moment.

Casey is the worst NBA head coach I have witnessed in my life and we are wasting a very good young team with him at the helm. That is our problem.

We have a great mix of talent:

Kyle can penetrate and find the open man.
Demar can get his own shot and attack the basket.
Got decent bigs who can score down low.
Solid three point shooting.
Good bench.
Some really good defenders.

All we've been doing lately is jack 3's and none of them go in but we keep shooting them and players don't get held accountble. WTF?
We don't go inside enough. WTF?
We bench our best defender JJ. WTF?
We don't run any f&cking plays except iso. WTF?
Lou Williams end of quarter ISO's actually made me vomit once.
Substitution patterns are insane. WTF?
No playing time at all for Steimsma when we don't have a backup centre. WTF?

[3inthekeon]

He hasn't had the playing time and is on a very short leash because we are in a difficult situation of being in win-now mode and developing talent at the same time.

Only Lowry has played more minutes this year than Ross.

On a per game only KL and DD have seen more court time.

[raptors999]

Only Lowry has played more minutes this year than Ross.

On a per game only KL and DD have seen more court time.

Being on the floor while the guards chuck, isn't the same as playing time. Both Ross and 2Pats need to be involved more not be on the floor more. If both are on the second unit but used more is better than Ross just playing D and 2Pats picking up garbage when he can starting. JV gets time but isn't really doing much second half of games either.

[3inthekeon]

Ross has 9.9 FGA/game, 4th on the team.

[Since Day 1]

Only Lowry has played more minutes this year than Ross.

On a per game only KL and DD have seen more court time.

Ross averaging 23mins/game for his 3 year career and has always been on a short leash. A couple bad plays and he's out. Lou/Kyle/Demar can take 10 shots in a row from half-court and they stay in the game.

Demar averaged 30mins/game for his first 3 years and got to play through his mistakes.

I'm not saying Ross will be a star and I don't even like him really, I just think it's too early to give up on him. I personally would like to see Lou gone and have Ross backing up Derozan next year playing in his natural spot.

[3inthekeon]

Ross has a PER of 11.3 and 1180 minutes this year.

How many of the 16 playoff bound coaches have given at least 1180 minutes to any player with a PER that low?

Answer - ONE - Dwane Casey.

[iblastoff]

Ross averaging 23mins/game for his 3 year career and has always been on a short leash. A couple bad plays and he's out. Lou/Kyle/Demar can take 10 shots in a row from half-court and they stay in the game.

Demar averaged 30mins/game for his first 3 years and got to play through his mistakes.

I'm not saying Ross will be a star and I don't even like him really, I just think it's too early to give up on him. I personally would like to see Lou gone and have Ross backing up Derozan next year playing in his natural spot.

2012-2013 season.

[Miekenstien]

Ross averaging 23mins/game for his 3 year career and has always been on a short leash. A couple bad plays and he's out. Lou/Kyle/Demar can take 10 shots in a row from half-court and they stay in the game.

Demar averaged 30mins/game for his first 3 years and got to play through his mistakes.

I'm not saying Ross will be a star and I don't even like him really, I just think it's too early to give up on him. I personally would like to see Lou gone and have Ross backing up Derozan next year playing in his natural spot.

first bold, i doubt that would ever happer.

second, different circumstances for the franchise

third, i think masai has stated he won't give up on the future and back to your first point, casey has shown he has minutes for ross. there is a good chance lou is gone after summer, i think someone will pay him. right now the team has two long, athletic sf in the making so that is a pretty good indication that ross is most likely not the long term sf solution.

[Balls of Steel]

I prefer to turn Ross into a Thaddeus Young but I just checked his positional stats and played much of his career as a PF. At 6-8, is he a viable option for SF. Can he guard SFs in this league?

[Primer]

Ross has a PER of 11.3 and 1180 minutes this year.

How many of the 16 playoff bound coaches have given at least 1180 minutes to any player with a PER that low?

Answer - ONE - Dwane Casey.

So you're down with the #firecasey movement now?

Casey is in trouble when one of his biggest supporters is pointing out dumb shit he does that a competent coach would not.

[Primer]

I prefer to turn Ross into a Thaddeus Young but I just checked his positional stats and played much of his career as a PF. At 6-8, is he a viable option for SF. Can he guard SFs in this league?

Thaddeus Young is a PF. He's played 99% of his minutes at PF this year, and actually played more C than SF, but doesn't really play either of those positions. He also can't shoot the 3 for shit. Not someone I would target at SF or PF.

[Fully]

One guy claims that Ross doesn't get enough minutes to flourish.

Other guy wants Casey fired because he plays someone as bad as Terrence Ross so much.

Love it.

[3inthekeon]

So you're down with the #firecasey movement now?

Casey is in trouble when one of his biggest supporters is pointing out dumb shit he does that a competent coach would not.

Don't really care if he gets fired or not, and I haven't for quite some time.

I do like playing devils advocate,, and if Casey was as incompetent as you and a few others claim, Masai would have kicked him to the curb long ago.

That is, unless Masai is some incompetent fool also. I will admit that I'm a Masai supporter, at least for the time being.