Is Tanking An Option?

[Shantz]

Even ESPN is asking the questions many of us have been speculating on.

Now that they are down 3-0, those questions are only going to get louder.

It's always an enjoyable listen, but if anyone hasn't done so yet they should check out th latest Zach Lowe podcast on Grantland with Amin Elhassan.

Gets particularly interesting in regards to Raptors at the 43 minute mark.

Lowe goes on to say:

"I think all bets are off for what happens in the offseason. I think literally every player is on the table. Anyone can be moved, I think Dwane Casey's in trouble, I think that's the license that Masai Ujiri has to say 'Okay, this team has gone as fr as it can go it's just not very good. Let me start putting my stamp on it'."

Amin says "Firesale is on if they get swept...for the right deal I'd sell all of them."

It's all just speculation, but interesting to read how many people have that feel about where the franchise is willing to go to be successful in the long run.

[McRealistic]

But don't you guys think tanking would be shitting on the fan base Masai and co. Recently created?
He talks about winning culture , our season tickets / playoff tickets are the most expensive in the NBA. MLSE is reaping the benefits of having the most "successful" team in toronto...
You think they would want to give that up?
Lose jarrasic park etc ? How embarrassing lol

Very true but that is problem when your whole plan is just TALK, TALK and more TALK ...

Lets face it, MU did not do anything to show his commitment to winning this season. He was inactive and his inactivity resulted in another exit from the play offs.

[planetmars]

Voted retool.. I would keep Lowry vs DD if one has to be moved to make the team better.. but still consider that part of retool. Lowry is hitting 30 but when healthy he's shown he is capable of playing as all-NBA talent. Just needs his minutes reigned in (36mpg last year, almost 35mpg this year is ridiculous for how he plays).

Get a defensive minded SG (would love to trade DD for Butler as an example). Bring Amir back for cheap but absolutely bring him off the bench. Get a PF/C hybrid. Maybe someone like Robin Lopez or Jordan Hill (if Lakers drop him). Could get either for about $8-9M. Make it a 2-3 year deal at the most.. and platoon that spot with PP, and Amir.

Draft a PG like Lucas that can develop properly by a new coach that would be willing to give him around 15mpg.

A team like this entering the playoffs.. but probably starting on the road. Trying get a top 5 pick is difficult these days. To much bad basketball in the NBA. But if Masai continues to create flexibility he'll I'm sure pounce when the situation is right to elevate the group into the next level.

Lowry will have trade value 2 years from now. He's not washed up despite how bad he's played in the playoffs.

[hotfuzz]

But don't you guys think tanking would be shitting on the fan base Masai and co. Recently created?
He talks about winning culture , our season tickets / playoff tickets are the most expensive in the NBA. MLSE is reaping the benefits of having the most "successful" team in toronto...
You think they would want to give that up?
Lose jarrasic park etc ? How embarrassing lol

This is what I'm scared of. The Raptors can easily make playoffs every year in a terrible East and that's a huge cash cow for MLSE. Really doubtful they'd want to get rid of it.

[white men can't jump]

It's always an enjoyable listen, but if anyone hasn't done so yet they should check out th latest Zach Lowe podcast on Grantland with Amin Elhassan.

Gets particularly interesting in regards to Raptors at the 43 minute mark.

Lowe goes on to say:

"I think all bets are off for what happens in the offseason. I think literally every player is on the table. Anyone can be moved, I think Dwane Casey's in trouble, I think that's the license that Masai Ujiri has to say 'Okay, this team has gone as fr as it can go it's just not very good. Let me start putting my stamp on it'."

Amin says "Firesale is on if they get swept...for the right deal I'd sell all of them."

It's all just speculation, but interesting to read how many people have that feel about where the franchise is willing to go to be successful in the long run.

It's not hard to believe that.

Masai talks a big game about going through whatever it takes to get the team to the highest level, and that he wouldn't be content as a treadmill team. If he has the freedom to do what he sees fit for the team and that's clean it up and tank, because a firesale would certainly lead to a year or two of abundant losing, then he should not hesitate to do so.

[mjt20mik]

I wouldn't tank. A mini rebuild is good yes.

[peanutwoozle]

Masai has had 2 years of his contract under his belt, If he decided to go out and tank now, he wouldn't finish in time, so the only way we tank is if we fire Masai.

[tDotted]

I'm willing to trade DD, Kyle and Lou for a top 5 pick this year. Is that considered tanking?

[white men can't jump]

I wouldn't tank. A mini rebuild is good yes.

There are definitely merits to the tank, especially if Lowry and DeMar have raised their value in the last 2 seasons, which they probably have.

We will already have 2 picks next year, and the NY/DEN one could be a lottery pick. If we tank, ours will be. And if we get picks for KL and DD, we could have even more. It'll probably take at least 2-3 more years to make it back to the playoffs, but it could be with a team that will be in a more sustainable situation than we have now.

But what do you mean by mini-rebuild? I could see that meaning re-tool, like just trying to add a core piece while letting some role players walk....Or I could see it meaning a mini one-year tank, where they just aim for the lottery next year but don't expect repeated lottery trips.

[white men can't jump]

I'm willing to trade DD, Kyle and Lou for a top 5 pick this year. Is that considered tanking?

Honestly I'd look more to next year's draft. Partly because I think it would be better, but partly because I wouldn't mind having 3-4 picks in one draft, with possibly at least 2 of them in the lottery.

[blackjitsu]

Tanking is the opposite of what this team needs. Retooling is the better option.

Ask yourself, what do the teams that have beaten the Raps in the playoffs had that the Raps do not have?

Answer: Vets who know how to win.

Also, ask yourself, what do teams that consistently win have in common with one another?

Answer: low turnover of players.

When you throw out the bathwater, do not throw out the child.

The Raptors have not had a true starting small forward play a full season since Jorge Garbojosa.

That's the position Joe Johnson, and Pierce play. Sort of an important position. The Raps need to fill that position.

There's no one on the current roster with deep playoff experience beside the Chuck Wagon. That needs to be fixed.

I could talk about the coach, but his flaws have been well documented in numerous threads.

If the Raps tank, what they're doing is making the team younger, less experienced, and less skilled in the short and long run. For what means? There are no Wiggins next year. The Raps should have a decent pick from the Bargs trade without having to lose games. The window to succeed in the Atlantic and East will likely close in a couple years as Miami, Boston, Charlotte, Milwaukee, etc., figure things out.

Also, when wooing free agents, a team that is a multiple time division champ looks a lot better than a rebuilding team that traded its top assets to tank. There's likely a talented SF, or PF (both positions of need) who looks at the Raps, realizes that the team he is on is stagnant and believes that they're the player that can get the Raps over their playoff struggles.

The more difficult part is finding the right coach.

[McRealistic]

Tanking is a coward way out of this mess for MU ...

[peanutwoozle]

There are definitely merits to the tank, especially if Lowry and DeMar have raised their value in the last 2 seasons, which they probably have.

We will already have 2 picks next year, and the NY/DEN one could be a lottery pick. If we tank, ours will be. And if we get picks for KL and DD, we could have even more. It'll probably take at least 2-3 more years to make it back to the playoffs, but it could be with a team that will be in a more sustainable situation than we have now.

But what do you mean by mini-rebuild? I could see that meaning re-tool, like just trying to add a core piece while letting some role players walk....Or I could see it meaning a mini one-year tank, where they just aim for the lottery next year but don't expect repeated lottery trips.

Maybe an Atlanta style rebuild.

[mcHAPPY]

Tanking is the opposite of what this team needs. Retooling is the better option.

Ask yourself, what do the teams that have beaten the Raps in the playoffs had that the Raps do not have?

Answer: Vets who know how to win.

I would say talent. The talent of John Wall was blatantly obvious watching the game. Raptors have NOTHING near that level of player who can lead and impact a game.

Also, ask yourself, what do teams that consistently win have in common with one another?

Answer: low turnover of players.

We had continuity from last year. Wizards lost a much bigger piece in Ariza and added a more important piece in Pierce. Raptors have same starting unit. Only change in top 10 players for Toronto was Lou and JJ.

When you throw out the bathwater, do not throw out the child.

The Raptors have not had a true starting small forward play a full season since Jorge Garbojosa.

That's the position Joe Johnson, and Pierce play. Sort of an important position. The Raps need to fill that position.

Raptors have a SF. They just don't play him.

There's no one on the current roster with deep playoff experience beside the Chuck Wagon. That needs to be fixed.

I could talk about the coach, but his flaws have been well documented in numerous threads.

If the Raps tank, what they're doing is making the team younger, less experienced, and less skilled in the short and long run. For what means? There are no Wiggins next year. The Raps should have a decent pick from the Bargs trade without having to lose games. The window to succeed in the Atlantic and East will likely close in a couple years as Miami, Boston, Charlotte, Milwaukee, etc., figure things out.

Talent acquisition matters. Miami will be dominant next year minus injury. Boston and Milwaukee have already figured things out and should only get better considering their coaches and youth. Charlotte is back to screwed as Big Al is on the decline. All of this is for not anyways: Raps are a first round speed bump.

Also, when wooing free agents, a team that is a multiple time division champ looks a lot better than a rebuilding team that traded its top assets to tank. There's likely a talented SF, or PF (both positions of need) who looks at the Raps, realizes that the team he is on is stagnant and believes that they're the player that can get the Raps over their playoff struggles.

The more difficult part is finding the right coach.

The type of player the Raptors need at SF or PF is a star. Again, see: John Wall. Raptors don't have that talent. It all comes back to the best way to acquire the talent. If we are going to debate free agency versus draft, I like the odds of the draft much better.

[mcHAPPY]

Maybe an Atlanta style rebuild.

So trade away your better players for prospects and future picks.

Then hire a really good coach.

Sounds similar to what many propose here except that the assumption is more losses will be the outcome.