What exactly does a Masai Ujiri team look like?

[mcHAPPY]

I disagree, I think he structured it well so that he has a really good chance over the next couple of years with a ton of expiring contracts.

If he put his stamp on it last season he would've changed up a successful roster to many a fans dismay to only start his process. He was smart and decided to sign some short term contracts to put himself in a position to do what he wants.

I like to think of Milwaukee. I think that's the direction that MU is going to look to go. Long, athletic, young, shoots well, etc...

I dont think getting Bebe was an accident, and drafting bruno gives us length and shooting. MU liking McGee should support how highly he values those physical attributes. Wonder if Masai will look at Hassan Whiteside again this summer when he's a FA, or throw a max at Deandre Jordan. I'm not sure JV is Masai's type of C.

Toss in a few players who move the ball well, and provide some decent on court leadership. I think that's why he likes GV, because its certainly not because he's long and athletic. From what I've seen I could see Lucas being a target of his in the draft, brings the physical tools he seems to like and if he could play behind GV he might pick up on his intellectual style of play. GV could actually be pretty useful on a team full of long and athletic rollers.

Have some smart and hard working role players fill in the rest of the roster, guys like PP fit that description. I could see him liking a healthy Amir.

And of course he'll need his 2 end of bench project guys, MU always seems to have them around.

Might have to take a look after work and really dig into it.

This is what I am thinking.

Long, athletic, defensive minded.

In addition to those bold moves above, you have the trading of Afflalo for Igoudala.

I feel confident on the defensive side of things what he is looking for. Now not so sure on the offensive side. Is he system based in the style of SA and ATL? Drive and dish? I-I-I-I*puke*swallow*cough* ISO?


Regarding JV, I'm warming up to the idea of trading him through this little exercise of dissecting previous Masai moves and interviews. I don't think JV fits the vision Masai has. Neither does DD. Neither does Lowry. But make no mistake, I think JV is the most valuable of those players due to age, contract status, and impact on the game.

[MixxAOR]

Weltman said his research has confirmed Raps' iso style of play & ability to score in the paint is more conducive to playoff basketball

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) February 4, 2015

Weltman is Masai's guy. So offensively I guess we're going for good old fashioned ISO. Don't care what Masai's vision is. Every GM envisions a team with great offense and great defense. Will Masai succeed? I'm pessimistic about that. I think this is a repeat of Sam Mitchell/Bosh Raptors.

[GLF]

Wait a second.

So you're saying Masai doesn't talk about a five year plan now?

In fact what you're saying is Masai has a five year contract therefore you assume there is a five year plan that must be executed AND successful in that time frame.

You know what I say? I say BULLPOOP - all around. You're reading your perception of the current situation as reality for the Raptors franchise.


And as always, you are living up to your avatar if you really and honestly believe Masai had any choice after the team had a franchise record wins last season and went to 7 games in the first round. If you think he could have turned that success aside and went in another direction you are delusional, in my opinion. You've come out of the shadows in recent weeks to take every opportunity to shit on Masai with a huge helping of hindsight that you conveniently refuse to acknowledge. The team was loaded up with players to fit perceived weaknesses last season and resigned players were brought back with manageable, tradeable, and short term contracts. I wonder if you are Masai's Jon Snow - except Masai wanted nothing to do with you unlike Ned Stark. It really is the only explanation I can think of. IF Masai had started to turn this team in to whatever vision he has last year, there would have been Hell, Fire, and Brimstone reigning down in Raptorland. Do not forget this is a business. I do not think the corporate sponsorships would have been too keen with such an approach. The fact they pooped the bed gives Masai every reason to now possibly make changes he possibly deems necessary.


Anyways, all this is the past. I'm asking what about the future.


......and if we don't see significant changes this off season, I will certainly start to change my view of Ujiri. But until then the only way one can possibly stand by an argument of he should have changed this team last year was if one had not been following the team for the previous 6 seasons.

I'm with you. I'm on team masai as long as he makes changes this offseason. If Casey is still back here next season for example Masai and this franchise can go fuck themselves. I refuse to watch a team run by Casey for another season. And it would prove to me Masai isn't as smart as I thought he was

[mcHAPPY]

Weltman said his research has confirmed Raps' iso style of play & ability to score in the paint is more conducive to playoff basketball

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) February 4, 2015

Weltman is Masai's guy. So offensively I guess we're going for good old fashioned ISO. Don't care what Masai's vision is. Every GM envisions a team with great offense and great defense. Will Masai succeed? I'm pessimistic about that. I think this is a repeat of Sam Mitchell/Bosh Raptors.

I think, or hope, this was about appeasing the masses as fans became restless towards the end of January and start of February.

But lets assume for a minute he was legit, 100% serious: Did Weltman's research consider what teams were successful with the ISO style of play and ability to score in the paint and what players were responsible for this success? Because having a Kobe, KD, LeBron type talent executing the ISO is a lot different than Lowry or DeRozan.

[peanutwoozle]

Wait a second.

So you're saying Masai doesn't talk about a five year plan now?

In fact what you're saying is Masai has a five year contract therefore you assume there is a five year plan that must be executed AND successful in that time frame.

You know what I say? I say BULLPOOP - all around. You're reading your perception of the current situation as reality for the Raptors franchise.


And as always, you are living up to your avatar if you really and honestly believe Masai had any choice after the team had a franchise record wins last season and went to 7 games in the first round. If you think he could have turned that success aside and went in another direction you are delusional, in my opinion. You've come out of the shadows in recent weeks to take every opportunity to shit on Masai with a huge helping of hindsight that you conveniently refuse to acknowledge. The team was loaded up with players to fit perceived weaknesses last season and resigned players were brought back with manageable, tradeable, and short term contracts. I wonder if you are Masai's Jon Snow - except Masai wanted nothing to do with you unlike Ned Stark. It really is the only explanation I can think of. IF Masai had started to turn this team in to whatever vision he has last year, there would have been Hell, Fire, and Brimstone reigning down in Raptorland. Do not forget this is a business. I do not think the corporate sponsorships would have been too keen with such an approach. The fact they pooped the bed gives Masai every reason to now possibly make changes he possibly deems necessary.


Anyways, all this is the past. I'm asking what about the future.


......and if we don't see significant changes this off season, I will certainly start to change my view of Ujiri. But until then the only way one can possibly stand by an argument of he should have changed this team last year was if one had not been following the team for the previous 6 seasons.

my 2nd post was edited while you were in the posting window.

let's see, I do believe that Masai could have tried again to trade Lowry somewhere else after the Knicks turned down the trade, could he not have? That was his opportunity to put his stamp on the team, but he turned it down, also, I don't know if he will fire the coach, you know why? Which coach did he fire in Denver? Don't say Karl, because they were both on their way out.

[mcHAPPY]

my 2nd post was edited while you were in the posting window.

let's see, I do believe that Masai could have tried again to trade Lowry somewhere else after the Knicks turned down the trade, could he not have? That was his opportunity to put his stamp on the team, but he turned it down, also, I don't know if he will fire the coach, you know why? Which coach did he fire in Denver? Don't say Karl, because they were both on their way out.

You think Masai only went to the Knicks? You don't think he scoured the league to find the trade value for every single Raptor - including DeRozan? There were lots of rumours about Gay-DD-Lowry at the time of the Gay trade. I don't say this with offense intended but I don't think you've really put any thought in to all of this outside of your own preconceived notions.

Also, it seems that you think Masai should have just given away Lowry with no regard to return. That is really poor asset management, in my opinion.

The Gay trade happened on December 4th if I recall correctly - or very early December. Lowry had all sorts of issues with the season just starting and the Casey quarrels of the season past. The trade deadline was not for another 2.5 months. It just so happened when 2.5 months rolled around the Raptors were a playoff team. Do you really think he could have blown that up at that time with the Raptors being the league Cinderella story? C'mon man.


Karl leaving/getting fired has nothing to do with Masai. Masai left before Karl was fired. The decision to fire Karl was not Masai's. Karl was also in Denver for 14 years and had all sorts of issues with cancer while still winning year in and year out. The playoffs were usually a disappointment, no question, and that is eventually what led to him getting the sack as well as wanting another long term contract.

[Bandit]

I think, or hope, this was about appeasing the masses as fans became restless towards the end of January and start of February.

But lets assume for a minute he was legit, 100% serious: Did Weltman's research consider what teams were successful with the ISO style of play and ability to score in the paint and what players were responsible for this success? Because having a Kobe, KD, LeBron type talent executing the ISO is a lot different than Lowry or DeRozan.

Ball movement leading to mismatches, then isolating those mismatches could count too. I would be a little happier if our iso heavy offence was designed around attacking weaknesses at least...

[S.R.]

Ball movement leading to mismatches, then isolating those mismatches could count too. I would be a little happier if our iso heavy offence was designed around attacking weaknesses at least...

There can (should) be a lot of off-ball movement before and during the ISO play. There should be a willingness to pass out of the ISO, to use it almost as a decoy to set up open looks somewhere else on the floor via off-ball screens.

It wasn't just that the Raps used a lot of ISO, it was that they would shoot even when they were really well defended and they would almost never pass. If they did pass, it was just to somebody standing still on the perimeter with a defender within closing distance. The play so rarely accomplished a good look. ISO doesn't have to be that way.

That GSW game where they realized all they had to do was play DeMar tight because he would shoot anyway and wasn't a threat to pass? That was downright embarrassing - it was on their whiteboard.

[mcHAPPY]

Ball movement leading to mismatches, then isolating those mismatches could count too. I would be a little happier if our iso heavy offence was designed around attacking weaknesses at least...

Good point.

Raptor idea of ISO was pound the piss out of ball, let defense set and pack paint, then attack taking a very difficult shot.

[Bandit]

This is what I am thinking.

Long, athletic, defensive minded.

In addition to those bold moves above, you have the trading of Afflalo for Igoudala.

I feel confident on the defensive side of things what he is looking for. Now not so sure on the offensive side. Is he system based in the style of SA and ATL? Drive and dish? I-I-I-I*puke*swallow*cough* ISO?


Regarding JV, I'm warming up to the idea of trading him through this little exercise of dissecting previous Masai moves and interviews. I don't think JV fits the vision Masai has. Neither does DD. Neither does Lowry. But make no mistake, I think JV is the most valuable of those players due to age, contract status, and impact on the game.

My concern as well. However maybe iso is just something he believes to be important in addition to a strong team driven offense?

Maybe he wants an atlanta-lite offense, with the ability to go iso once we get a favorable match up if we can't get the easy bucket. I could live with that.

I'm curious to look more into the potential moves he could make with our current core. Behind the two he's already brought in, who from our team will fit his style?

[mcHAPPY]

There can (should) be a lot of off-ball movement before and during the ISO play. There should be a willingness to pass out of the ISO, to use it almost as a decoy to set up open looks somewhere else on the floor via off-ball screens.

It wasn't just that the Raps used a lot of ISO, it was that they would shoot even when they were really well defended and they would almost never pass. If they did pass, it was just to somebody standing still on the perimeter with a defender within closing distance. The play so rarely accomplished a good look. ISO doesn't have to be that way.

That GSW game where they realized all they had to do was play DeMar tight because he would shoot anyway and wasn't a threat to pass? That was downright embarrassing - it was on their whiteboard.

The things my PTS has blocked from memory this year is frightening.

[mcHAPPY]

My concern as well. However maybe iso is just something he believes to be important in addition to a strong team driven offense?

Maybe he wants an atlanta-lite offense, with the ability to go iso once we get a favorable match up if we can't get the easy bucket. I could live with that.

I'm curious to look more into the potential moves he could make with our current core. Behind the two he's already brought in, who from our team will fit his style?

Nothing wrong with ISO as a tool in the ol' tool box.

Break it out from time to time - no problem what so ever.

Rely on it exclusively for 86 games? *shudder*

[Bandit]

There can (should) be a lot of off-ball movement before and during the ISO play. There should be a willingness to pass out of the ISO, to use it almost as a decoy to set up open looks somewhere else on the floor via off-ball screens.

It wasn't just that the Raps used a lot of ISO, it was that they would shoot even when they were really well defended and they would almost never pass. If they did pass, it was just to somebody standing still on the perimeter with a defender within closing distance. The play so rarely accomplished a good look. ISO doesn't have to be that way.

That GSW game where they realized all they had to do was play DeMar tight because he would shoot anyway and wasn't a threat to pass? That was downright embarrassing - it was on their whiteboard.

That's another huge point, you could use iso not as your scoring method but as your initiation for the offense.

Iso to Iso doesn't work.

Iso to quick play/shot can work.

Quick play to favorable iso could work as well.

[Bandit]

Nothing wrong with ISO as a tool in the ol' tool box.

Break it out from time to time - no problem what so ever.

Rely on it exclusively for 86 games? *shudder*

Who would ever rely on it for 86 games lol?

Better yet, what type of crazy would even watch that?!?!

[JawsGT]

I just hope it doesn't look like a bunch of Basketball without Borders charity cases, being coached by Casey lol