Woj: Casey will be back

[Primer]

We don't have that yet, and Casey's contract runs out at the end of this season. Unless I'm mistake, the last year of Casey's contract is team option?

I guess maybe what it all boils down to is, how quickly you think the roster can be fixed. If it's a fast transition where I thought this season's core is the future core of that conference finalist team, then by all means I would agree let's change the coach now and it makes sense to do it now.

But from my point of view we're at least 2 years away from that. I don't think a single starter on this team other than JV will be on that team, the one that is expected to reach the conference finals. So because of that, I don't feel it's the right timing to replace Casey.

Going by my timeline, next year will still be another transitional year of Ujiri acquiring young talent and draft picks, and developing/swapping players. We might be win anywhere between 40-50 games although depending on which pieces are remaining, it could be closer to 40 or less. Missing the playoffs is a possibility, but most likely what would happen is we limp in and lose in the first round again. When that happens, it will be easy to opt out on Casey and move forward, and the bonus is that we'll be a full seasons' worth of moves closer to the final end goal.

I'm just not down with wasting a whole season. Keeping Casey would signal to me this next season is a throw away, and that would sucks balls. Hire a new coach and let him start to put in his system, which will take some time. Why does the roster need to be completely fixed before we get a new coach? That just makes zero sense to me. We know Casey isn't the guy and should move on, the last year of his deal is not cost prohibitive, money won't be the reason he is brought back. The only reason Casey should be brought back is if we think he's the coach who can help us contend for titles, and we know damn well he's not that guy. He also plays some of the worst most frustrating basketball to watch, I don't need another season to know that definitely. Triano had a pretty shit roster to work with, but we didn't keep him around until we made the roster better, we fired him and brought in a guy we thought would do better. After 4 years, it's obvious we made a bad hire, and it's time to try someone else.

[psrs1]

I'm just not down with wasting a whole season. Keeping Casey would signal to me this next season is a throw away, and that would sucks balls. Hire a new coach and let him start to put in his system, which will take some time. Why does the roster need to be completely fixed before we get a new coach? That just makes zero sense to me. We know Casey isn't the guy and should move on, the last year of his deal is not cost prohibitive, money won't be the reason he is brought back. The only reason Casey should be brought back is if we think he's the coach who can help us contend for titles, and we know damn well he's not that guy. He also plays some of the worst most frustrating basketball to watch, I don't need another season to know that definitely. Triano had a pretty shit roster to work with, but we didn't keep him around until we made the roster better, we fired him and brought in a guy we thought would do better. After 4 years, it's obvious we made a bad hire, and it's time to try someone else.

In agreement. I'm surprised by the number of posters who would be ok with DC coming back next year. It will indeed end up being a wasted year.

[Mr.Z]

Let's see, this looks like a repeat of Bryan Colangelo (and he was another one who this fanbase worshiped like a god), Bryan should have been fired much sooner than he was, we can't let that happen again.

He already has 2 strikes against him (re-signing Trashquez, and not firing Casey).

and by the way, Grunfeld is the guy who ripped him off with the Nene trade.

Masai has been in control of this team for two seasons now. Wtf were you expecting by now? A championship?

[golden]

Masai has been in control of this team for two seasons now. Wtf were you expecting by now? A championship?

LOL, I know. Last year lots of people said they were willing to wait however long it took to tank and do a "proper" rebuild, like Philly. To put it in further perspective, I'm pretty sure we could trade Lowry and/or DD to Utah for Dante Exum + filler/TPE, and it would be just like we tanked last year and got that top 5 pick everybody was clamoring for, in the so-called "best draft since Lebron".

Anybody still up for building your franchise around Exum?

[grindhouse]

I'm just not down with wasting a whole season. Keeping Casey would signal to me this next season is a throw away, and that would sucks balls. Hire a new coach and let him start to put in his system, which will take some time. Why does the roster need to be completely fixed before we get a new coach? That just makes zero sense to me. We know Casey isn't the guy and should move on, the last year of his deal is not cost prohibitive, money won't be the reason he is brought back. The only reason Casey should be brought back is if we think he's the coach who can help us contend for titles, and we know damn well he's not that guy. He also plays some of the worst most frustrating basketball to watch, I don't need another season to know that definitely. Triano had a pretty shit roster to work with, but we didn't keep him around until we made the roster better, we fired him and brought in a guy we thought would do better. After 4 years, it's obvious we made a bad hire, and it's time to try someone else.

we have had the same roster with what 3 different coaches, its the players and the scouting. james johnson is the only person on the roster who can play defense. our guys are undersized for the positions they play across the board.

[Just Is]

we have had the same roster with what 3 different coaches, its the players and the scouting. james johnson is the only person on the roster who can play defense. our guys are undersized for the positions they play across the board.

Umm...I hate to be that guy but...Casey's been the coach for almost 4 years. 3 Full Seasons (+2 Post Seasons) and a partial one. It's been one coach with differing rosters (to various degrees).

Last year's roster (which was inferior to this year's) managed to play defense so...

Scouting happened and a coach who refused to adjust.

[grindhouse]

Umm...I hate to be that guy but...Casey's been the coach for almost 4 years. 3 Full Seasons (+2 Post Seasons) and a partial one. It's been one coach with differing rosters (to various degrees).

Last year's roster (which was inferior to this year's) managed to play defense so...

And the we got to the playoffs and demar got destroyed. The team is not made for the playoffs at all


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[MixxAOR]

Umm...I hate to be that guy but...Casey's been the coach for almost 4 years. 3 Full Seasons (+2 Post Seasons) and a partial one. It's been one coach with differing rosters (to various degrees).

Last year's roster (which was inferior to this year's) managed to play defense so...

Scouting happened and a coach who refused to adjust.

That's misconception. Our defense fell off the cliff at the end of the last season as well. We had one month when our defense was excellent and then it dropped. That one month inflated our overall rating. This team was never consistently good defensively.

[ebrian]

Two years ago we traded Rudy Gay and we were supposed to lose. The players we traded for should have been used as value pieces to more trades involving Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan. Instead, they became key players in a year where we overachieved, which forced Masai's hand to give contract extensions to, in large part -- reserve players, to sign complementary players, and draft a player who was 4 years away from doing anything. The team performed better than they should have, and the GM reacted to it.

That overachieving team showed up again for the first half of the season, and by the time the time reality set in, there wasn't enough time for Masai to switch it up and do something during the trade deadline. Plus we'd built a solid path to reach the playoffs. Once again, this overachieving squad swung and missed in the playoffs, but due to the huge collapse there's a chance we might blame the coach on this and continue with this core, which would be a mistake.

I don't want to see all this happen again, so I'm willing to sacrifice a year of enjoyment for it. If you switch coaches now, we might overachieve again with a new and better system, but we'll still have the same flaws. I want a complete overhaul, and to do that we need to kind of hit rock bottom.

[psrs1]

Masai has been in control of this team for two seasons now. Wtf were you expecting by now? A championship?

A visit to the second round of the playoffs is not an unrealistic expectation.

[psrs1]

Two years ago we traded Rudy Gay and we were supposed to lose. The players we traded for should have been used as value pieces to more trades involving Kyle Lowry, DeMar DeRozan. Instead, they became key players in a year where we overachieved, which forced Masai's hand to give contract extensions to, in large part -- reserve players, to sign complementary players, and draft a player who was 4 years away from doing anything. The team performed better than they should have, and the GM reacted to it.

That overachieving team showed up again for the first half of the season, and by the time the time reality set in, there wasn't enough time for Masai to switch it up and do something during the trade deadline. Plus we'd built a solid path to reach the playoffs. Once again, this overachieving squad swung and missed in the playoffs, but due to the huge collapse there's a chance we might blame the coach on this and continue with this core, which would be a mistake.

I don't want to see all this happen again, so I'm willing to sacrifice a year of enjoyment for it. If you switch coaches now, we might overachieve again with a new and better system, but we'll still have the same flaws. I want a complete overhaul, and to do that we need to kind of hit rock bottom.

You really want to go the Sixers route?

[psrs1]

And the we got to the playoffs and demar got destroyed. The team is not made for the playoffs at all


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And MU will have to make a decision re DD moving forward. Is there sufficient room for growth that he can win in the playoffs or has he reached his peak and consideration should be given to a trade.

[magoon]

You really want to go the Sixers route?

No, the Sixers route was to strip the franchise of every talent on the roster - period - in order to accumulate draft picks, and then spend 2-4 years at the absolute bottom of the league to make sure their own picks maximized in value as a result.

Most people advocating for a rebuild at this time aren't suggesting that the Raps should follow Philly's lead; they're saying that Kyle and DeMar are our "stars," and that as "stars" they're not good enough to get us to serious title contention, and accordingly we should trade them for as much value as possible. Both are on extremely reasonable contracts, and both are All-Star level players right now. (One might argue that they're fringe All-Stars at best, and that's a valid argument, but that's part of the logic of selling high.)

Nobody seems to be advocating for a strip mine or a total tank. Most people seem to agree that keeping Jonas and 2Pat, at a minimum, is worthwhile - and you wouldn't keep them in the Philly model. People seem to be advocating for a rebuild-on-the-go, and that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

[psrs1]

No, the Sixers route was to strip the franchise of every talent on the roster - period - in order to accumulate draft picks, and then spend 2-4 years at the absolute bottom of the league to make sure their own picks maximized in value as a result.

Most people advocating for a rebuild at this time aren't suggesting that the Raps should follow Philly's lead; they're saying that Kyle and DeMar are our "stars," and that as "stars" they're not good enough to get us to serious title contention, and accordingly we should trade them for as much value as possible. Both are on extremely reasonable contracts, and both are All-Star level players right now. (One might argue that they're fringe All-Stars at best, and that's a valid argument, but that's part of the logic of selling high.)

Nobody seems to be advocating for a strip mine or a total tank. Most people seem to agree that keeping Jonas and 2Pat, at a minimum, is worthwhile - and you wouldn't keep them in the Philly model. People seem to be advocating for a rebuild-on-the-go, and that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

What do you expect to get back for DD and KL in a trade?

[Primer]

What do you expect to get back for DD and KL in a trade?

Just spit balling because I'm bored.

How about Middleton and Ennis for DD in a sign and trade?

Something like that, where we use DD to facilitate us getting one of the RFA we covet.