The Lottery

[Joey]

How terrible would it be if MU decide to bring both of DD and KL back this season ?

That in and of itself wouldn't be "terrible" per se; we'd be keeping our two best players.
That said, however, I have no attachment to Lowry whatsoever and would be perfectly ok if we traded him to accumulate assets or improve our 3/4 spots.

[McRealistic]

That in and of itself wouldn't be "terrible" per se; we'd be keeping our two best players.
That said, however, I have no attachment to Lowry whatsoever and would be perfectly ok if we traded him to accumulate assets or improve our 3/4 spots.

I am the same way. I will be totally fine if DD is back because I think this guy still has more untapped talent and much higher ceiling but I really want KL to be gone. I think he is toxic when things don't go right and is not the right PG for this team.

[Primer]

It's your opinion that you can't really add to this core but it's based on much less than perfect knowledge. I have no idea what specific steps should be taken to improve the team and I'm not going to pretend to play GM cause it's pointless. I don't know what trades are out there. I don't know what the magic beans from a draft might produce. The market is dependent on a myriad of factors I know little to nothing about. Even the GM doesn't know until he starts shopping.

As an aside, the Raptors have been in need of a small forward since Vince Carter left. Is it really that hard to find a serviceable SF? It takes 12 years? Other teams seem to be able to find serviceable guys at decent prices all the time. I don't think it's inconceivable to believe that Ujiri can do the same.

Haha, this whole fucking forum is pointless. The whole reason a bunch of us come here is to play pretend GM, or pretend coach, or pretend owner. Don't go all superjudge and declare people can't speculate because we ourselves aren't GM or a player or a coach in the league. We have roster lists, payrolls, cap status, draft pick status for every team, draft position for every team, scouting reports for draft picks, a plethora of stats. We have a lot to work with to make some informed speculation, not this far less than perfect scenario you're trying to paint. It's not unfathomable to predict what trades might be available, especially when teams like NYK come out and say they're shopping their pick. Our opinion that you can't really add to the core without trades is just simple math. We have $16M in cap space, and any starter quality player is going to require the majority of that. We also know that our most coveted guys are RFA, and RFA are notoriously difficult to sign away from their current team, that's not speculation, that's a historical fact. I'm sure Masai could pull off a move we don't foresee, but it probably wouldn't be anything too far off from what we're discussing now.

[Mess]

Is it still called a "brick" when you miss from 3 inches?

Not that it really matters, it was a joke. But it clanged off the rim didn't it?

[KeonClark]

I am the same way. I will be totally fine if DD is back because I think this guy still has more untapped talent and much higher ceiling but I really want KL to be gone. I think he is toxic when things don't go right and is not the right PG for this team.

You guys have loved spouting this ever since the playoffs ended, but still no proof of ANYTHING

[magoon]

Jrue Holiday is just 24 and was just 22 at the time of the trade. Not sure that is a fitting comparable for Lowry.

Partially that's accounted for by Toronto taking garbage salary back that Sac doesn't want (Thompson). It could also be further finessed by trading Sac our #20 pick this year.

But, on the other hand, KG and Pierce were both at the tail ends of their game when Boston traded them to Brooklyn. Two and a half picks each, essentially, is what they cost.

[Axel]

Partially that's accounted for by Toronto taking garbage salary back that Sac doesn't want (Thompson). It could also be further finessed by trading Sac our #20 pick this year.

But, on the other hand, KG and Pierce were both at the tail ends of their game when Boston traded them to Brooklyn. Two and a half picks each, essentially, is what they cost.

Brooklyn, like the Bargnani trade, is really not the norm though. A perfect storm of desperate to compete ownership and desirable assets are required. Not sure that exists for us.

[Primer]

If Sac doesn't offer picks for Lowry then we just say no, simple as that. Lowry is our best player, and basically the sole reason we made the playoffs the last two years. He's worth a hell of a lot more than shit PF on a bad contract and a Sophmore SG who played terrible his first year. I'd be totally fine if Lowry is still our PG next year, we have him signed to a great value contract, and he's a legit all star that made our team a lot better. I'm a lot more interested in trading DD because he's missing a crucial SG skill in 3pt shooting, and he's going to cost closer to $20M per season after this year, probably the most important reason to try and deal him.

[Mess]

You guys have loved spouting this ever since the playoffs ended, but still no proof of ANYTHING

Agreed. People are basing so much off of a single what, 10 minute interview? We have access to the team (players, coaches, mgmt) a miniscule amount of time (no, Open Gym doesn't count) yet some people make very subjective conclusions. Drastic conclusions that they write in stone and will not waver from.

But I guess they have a right to it like I have a right to roll my eyes at it. Though I admit I'm not innocent from it either.

Another fun conclusion is that DD and KL have completely torpedoed their trade value. I'm not surprised a Raptor fan would feel that way. The way the season ended made us all feel gutted. It's only natural to put the blame on the two best players (and coach) and declare them worthless because we were let down. Shit gets personal. It's nowhere near being objective though.

[Axel]

Agreed. People are basing so much off of a single what, 10 minute interview? We have access to the team (players, coaches, mgmt) a miniscule amount of time (no, Open Gym doesn't count) yet some people make very subjective conclusions. Drastic conclusions that they write in stone and will not waver from.

But I guess they have a right to it like I have a right to roll my eyes at it. Though I admit I'm not innocent from it either.

Another fun conclusion is that DD and KL have completely torpedoed their trade value. I'm not surprised a Raptor fan would feel that way. The way the season ended made us all feel gutted. It's only natural to put the blame on the two best players (and coach) and declare them worthless because we were let down. Shit gets personal. It's nowhere near being objective though.

Wow, let's just make shit up and say someone said it so we can disagree. Sounds like a fun game.

I am the only person who has used the word "torpedoed" and DD wasn't ever mentioned in that post (or any post using that word).

If you actually read it, I clearly state that I am expecting Lowry's value to torpedo IF the status quo remains. So yes, trading Lowry before that happens is my preference to keeping him and hoping for the best. You may disagree with my posts but at least I am providing rationale for my theory. You're just making shit up for the purpose of disagreeing.

[Primer]

Agreed. People are basing so much off of a single what, 10 minute interview? We have access to the team (players, coaches, mgmt) a miniscule amount of time (no, Open Gym doesn't count) yet some people make very subjective conclusions. Drastic conclusions that they write in stone and will not waver from.

But I guess they have a right to it like I have a right to roll my eyes at it. Though I admit I'm not innocent from it either.

Another fun conclusion is that DD and KL have completely torpedoed their trade value. I'm not surprised a Raptor fan would feel that way. The way the season ended made us all feel gutted. It's only natural to put the blame on the two best players (and coach) and declare them worthless because we were let down. Shit gets personal. It's nowhere near being objective though.

How quickly people forget that the untradeable Gay and Bargnani were both moved for very nice returns. Lowry and DD have played way better than both those guys, and are on better deals. The playoff series probably didn't effect their value at all, especially Derozan because he actually played well.

[Axel]

If Sac doesn't offer picks for Lowry then we just say no, simple as that. Lowry is our best player, and basically the sole reason we made the playoffs the last two years. He's worth a hell of a lot more than shit PF on a bad contract and a Sophmore SG who played terrible his first year. I'd be totally fine if Lowry is still our PG next year, we have him signed to a great value contract, and he's a legit all star that made our team a lot better. I'm a lot more interested in trading DD because he's missing a crucial SG skill in 3pt shooting, and he's going to cost closer to $20M per season after this year, probably the most important reason to try and deal him.

All of that is true but only depending on how comfortable you are with Casey & Lowry leading this team next year. And assuming they are both back, trading DD may be more or less likely depending on where you fall on that one.

The situation is much more complex and fluid than anyone can really appreciate, so regardless of what you feel happened or may not have happened, it's all speculation (and fair game for RR).

[KeonClark]

Agreed. People are basing so much off of a single what, 10 minute interview? We have access to the team (players, coaches, mgmt) a miniscule amount of time (no, Open Gym doesn't count) yet some people make very subjective conclusions. Drastic conclusions that they write in stone and will not waver from.

But I guess they have a right to it like I have a right to roll my eyes at it. Though I admit I'm not innocent from it either.

Another fun conclusion is that DD and KL have completely torpedoed their trade value. I'm not surprised a Raptor fan would feel that way. The way the season ended made us all feel gutted. It's only natural to put the blame on the two best players (and coach) and declare them worthless because we were let down. Shit gets personal. It's nowhere near being objective though.

Not to mention, the infamous 10 minute interview contained a couple slight backhanded compliments at the coach that were just completely blown out of the water by jack "I'm a coach" armstrong and a select few here. Please remember, these statements were made just a day or 2 after our humiliating defeat. Kyle was obviously frustrated by the lack of strategy, or any adjustments at all, even after droppinng both on home court. If those comments were made by say MJ gary payton or kobe, it would have been spun as a frustrated competitive warrior letting off some steam. Since its kyle lowry, he's a toxic cancer (again). Once again, the book on lowry has never been a me first cancer, but that of a hard headed guy who reeeally wants to winm would you guys rather have a team of terrence ross personalities, petulant little brats that run to instagram and twitter and target fans when the going gets tough?

[Axel]

Not to mention, the infamous 10 minute interview contained a couple slight backhanded compliments at the coach that were just completely blown out of the water by jack "I'm a coach" armstrong and a select few here. Please remember, these statements were made just a day or 2 after our humiliating defeat. Kyle was obviously frustrated by the lack of strategy, or any adjustments at all, even after droppinng both on home court. If those comments were made by say MJ gary payton or kobe, it would have been spun as a frustrated competitive warrior letting off some steam. Since its kyle lowry, he's a toxic cancer (again). Once again, the book on lowry has never been a me first cancer, but that of a hard headed guy who reeeally wants to winm would you guys rather have a team of terrence ross personalities, petulant little brats that run to instagram and twitter and target fans when the going gets tough?

The book on Lowry was that he did whatever he thought was best and not necessarily what the coach thought was best. That rogue attitude will work if you are Jordan, Kobe or LeBron, but not if you're Lowry.

He put it together for his contract year but really he has never really had a full season of productivity.

[Primer]

All of that is true but only depending on how comfortable you are with Casey & Lowry leading this team next year. And assuming they are both back, trading DD may be more or less likely depending on where you fall on that one.

The situation is much more complex and fluid than anyone can really appreciate, so regardless of what you feel happened or may not have happened, it's all speculation (and fair game for RR).

I never said anything about people not speculating, or what's fair game, just that a trade of Lowry for Thompson and Stauskas should be turned down with a quickness because that's an abysmal return for an all star in a great value contract.