Poeltl & Pascal - The 2016 Draft

[S.R.]

I like the guys Ujiri likes. This is fun.

[rightsideup]

time will tell but so far this year's picks are doing exceptional, the injuries to bebe and sully have gave this fellows pt and they are responding to the challange

[DanH]

Really like the energy both are providing. But we really have to get Siakam out of the starting lineup. We're settling into the old pattern of starting games off in holes.

Frankly I'd be a little excited to see the energy brought by a bench unit of Poeltl, Siakam, Ross, CoJo and DD; or JP-PS-Ross-Powell-Lowry. Spacing would be only OK, but I'd rather have OK spacing with bench units than with the starters.

[white men can't jump]

Siakam is in over his head right now. Not his fault but with Carroll doing his best to prove someone can be worse than Scola it's absolutely killing us to start games. Those are our glue spots in the starting lineup and they're about as "sticky" as Astroglide.

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[Chr1s1anL]

2pat need to start hitting shots before any thought of taking Siakam out the starting line up. K-low and Siakam are starting to gain some chemistry with Siakam running the floor and Lowry finding him. As the season goes on I think Siakam will get better offensively. Don't think the 20 footers he made were a fluke. More practise and he will be hitting them consistently. Kind of how Norm's jumper came along later in the year.

Also having the two rookies on the court at the same time doesnt sound like a good idea to me.

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[golden]

Really like the energy both are providing. But we really have to get Siakam out of the starting lineup. We're settling into the old pattern of starting games off in holes.

Frankly I'd be a little excited to see the energy brought by a bench unit of Poeltl, Siakam, Ross, CoJo and DD; or JP-PS-Ross-Powell-Lowry. Spacing would be only OK, but I'd rather have OK spacing with bench units than with the starters.

Starters will be a lot better once Lowry gets his shot back. This team goes as Lowry and Derozan go, first and foremost. Then there's DeMarre Carroll, who can't make a mid-range shot to save his life right now. JYD 0.2, smh.

Moving 2Pat into the starting lineup could go both ways, since you'd lose rebounding and Patterson is the worst shooter on the team right now. I could easily see Casey making that switch just to "get Pat going".

Having said that, the Raps are sitting 7th overall in team ORTG and DRTG, with a lot of players struggling on offense and a projected starter (Sullinger) injured. Casey is doing a good job managing minutes and DeMar is playing lights-out with the team is riding him through this stretch. This team is deep and built to withstand injuries and key guys like Carroll & Pat struggling to a lesser degree.

[white men can't jump]

You dont have to move Pat in, especially depending on matchups. You could slide Carroll over against smaller teams and start Powell. You could also just sit Carroll for Powell til he gets his act together.

What's killing us right now is having BOTH Carroll and Siakam in there to start games. Siakam plays hard but is very lost out there a lot. And Carroll...there aren't words that describe how much he's hurting us right now.

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[golden]

You dont have to move Pat in, especially depending on matchups. You could slide Carroll over against smaller teams and start Powell. You could also just sit Carroll for Powell til he gets his act together.

What's killing us right now is having BOTH Carroll and Siakam in there to start games. Siakam plays hard but is very lost out there a lot. And Carroll...there aren't words that describe how much he's hurting us right now.

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Yep. Siakam is explainable and he will improve once he learns the schemes and his teammates, but Carroll. Man, I even wonder about his BBIQ sometimes. Funny how people always complained about Casey not giving development minutes to rooks and how they'd be okay to take a few losses to live through their mistakes. Well, that's happening with Siakam and he's doing fine in his role and the team is winning and people want to change things up already before he's even settled in?

Another idea is to let Carroll sit and rest whatever injury he always has and start DD/Powell interchangeably at SF/SG. Powell is looking superb this year and he'll bring energy to the starting lineup.

[3inthekeon]

[IMG]

Like Poeltl's minutes last night -- good energy/positioning on D. Nice to see Lowry-plus-bench lineups get rolling. Ross on fire. DDR insane

— Zach Lowe (@ZachLowe_NBA) November 5, 2016

[/IMG]

[DanH]

Starters will be a lot better once Lowry gets his shot back. This team goes as Lowry and Derozan go, first and foremost. Then there's DeMarre Carroll, who can't make a mid-range shot to save his life right now. JYD 0.2, smh.

Moving 2Pat into the starting lineup could go both ways, since you'd lose rebounding and Patterson is the worst shooter on the team right now. I could easily see Casey making that switch just to "get Pat going".

Having said that, the Raps are sitting 7th overall in team ORTG and DRTG, with a lot of players struggling on offense and a projected starter (Sullinger) injured. Casey is doing a good job managing minutes and DeMar is playing lights-out with the team is riding him through this stretch. This team is deep and built to withstand injuries and key guys like Carroll & Pat struggling to a lesser degree.

Sounds like all the same stuff that was said about Scola starting last year - team has good overall ratings, Pat is struggling to shoot, has to earn his shot at starting. It was inevitable that he would have to start in the playoffs, and it killed us not having established a working bench rotation without him. It's less inevitable this year, but all the logic being the same is very concerning. The starting lineup doesn't need rebounding - JV, Carroll, DD and Lowry are all above average to elite rebounders at their positions.

It's the exact same story as last year, with only the hope that a rookie improves with time (no guarantee - the term rookie wall exists for a reason) making it slightly less problematic.

[GLF]

Sounds like all the same stuff that was said about Scola starting last year - team has good overall ratings, Pat is struggling to shoot, has to earn his shot at starting. It was inevitable that he would have to start in the playoffs, and it killed us not having established a working bench rotation without him. It's less inevitable this year, but all the logic being the same is very concerning. The starting lineup doesn't need rebounding - JV, Carroll, DD and Lowry are all above average to elite rebounders at their positions.

It's the exact same story as last year, with only the hope that a rookie improves with time (no guarantee - the term rookie wall exists for a reason) making it slightly less problematic.

I'm with Dan. It's same old story. I'm just over hoping and praying for Casey to make the right move. I don't think it will end as problematic as last season because we still have Sulinger coming back and the rookie could improve throughout the season. I am more disappointed with Carroll though. At least the rookie is a rookie. Carroll just looks a hot mess and who knows if he ever becomes 100% this season. Having BOTH of them starting is the real problem. As long as we keep winning Casey won't be changing anything, last season proved that. Our only hope is for us to start losing because of our slow starts which none of us want obviously. But it might be the only way. I just keep telling myself when Sullinger comes back everything will be fine with the starting lineup so it shouldn't linger on like it did last season. The other reason he won't change it is because Pascal himself is playing well. Just like how to start the season Scola himself was playing well. He doesn't care about the affect on a lineup, he just sees one player playing well and one player struggling and that's it.

[Chr1s1anL]

This 2pat starting thing is so old.

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[Axel]

This 2pat starting thing is so old.

Yes because starting the best PF we have is just such an abstract concept that people shouldn't support it.

[golden]

Sounds like all the same stuff that was said about Scola starting last year - team has good overall ratings, Pat is struggling to shoot, has to earn his shot at starting. It was inevitable that he would have to start in the playoffs, and it killed us not having established a working bench rotation without him. It's less inevitable this year, but all the logic being the same is very concerning. The starting lineup doesn't need rebounding - JV, Carroll, DD and Lowry are all above average to elite rebounders at their positions.

It's the exact same story as last year, with only the hope that a rookie improves with time (no guarantee - the term rookie wall exists for a reason) making it slightly less problematic.

I've got no problem starting either Siakam or Pat, but the situation changes again when Sullinger gets back. But what's even more troubling than Pat's shooting woes is his new-found desire to dribble drive the ball into paint after turning down open shots. He talked about how he worked a lot on driving the ball in the off-season to expand his game and he's actually following through with it in games this season. That's the last thing we need from our floor spacer - turning down open shots and clogging up the paint. Patterson's a mess right now, IMO.

[DanH]

I've got no problem starting either Siakam or Pat, but the situation changes again when Sullinger gets back. But what's even more troubling than Pat's shooting woes is his new-found desire to dribble drive the ball into paint after turning down open shots. He talked about how he worked a lot on driving the ball in the off-season to expand his game and he's actually following through with it in games this season. That's the last thing we need from our floor spacer - turning down open shots and clogging up the paint. Patterson's a mess right now, IMO.

See? Same thing as last year. Last year, it was exactly the same. Patterson doesn't look right. Patterson is playing poorly. Patterson isn't shooting, which the team needs him to do. And all the while the team was at its best with Patterson on the floor.

Of all the players who have played in every game, you know who has the best on-court net rating? It's Patterson, because it's always Patterson. You know who has the worst off-court net rating? Patterson again.

This should not surprise people. It's the exact same narrative we went through last year. All the same excuses, all the same concerns about how Patterson is playing, it's all the same.