Are we treadmilling?

[Bendit]

Treadmilling means same results year after year.

We have been improving year after year the last 3-4.

We are not treadmilling.

I dont believe anyone has denied the progress of the recent past and indeed this year. If you agree with the proposition that we have hit a hard ceiling faced with a Lebron led talented Cavs team would retaining the current core and making minor adjustments put this team in a competitive position in a series against the Cavs. Barring any miraculous show of strength in the rem. games how can/should we make moves to keep improving. This is the challenge. Unless of course you want to remain at this level of achievement or hope James takes his talents elsewhere.

[Joey]

Can I just say .. this is some quality discussion going on in here boys ... love it.

I think something that needs to be considered is that Cleveland, OKC and Golden State are #1, #2 and #3 in the league in Salary Cap budget. The Raptors aren't even CLOSE to them in terms of spending. AND we have a Top-10 pick, an asset that many teams would tank for in and of itself. We have too many assets and too much flexibility to be treadmilling ... to continue with the running analogy, treadmilling implies never moving forward .. running on the spot .. we made huge strides this season, regardless of post-season play, and simply ran directly into the Wall that is Lebron James. Even if/when we sign Durant, we'll still have trouble getting past Lebron and the Cavs.
If we maintain the status quo for another 3 years seeing if it'll just somehow work, then I would agree .. but that's still too far out.

[Bendit]

Yes I think so. I mean, we barely scraped by those two series so I definitely think still have a ways to go. But I think you can sweep those teams and still lose the Lebron's Cavaliers.

I think if we can still grow to a point that we'd challenge the Cavs in the ECF for the next few years assuming Lebron sticks around, that means that we haven't reached our ceiling yet.

First tangible suggestion of a near term goal. It is not a sea change improvement because surely you weren't pleased with torturous results of the first 2 series this year. I was personally thinking 5 or 6 easier games in the first and 6 in the second. But no matter a sweep would mean that either our players have further matured or changes of consequence were made.

Did you have any suggestions on the changes you'd like to see. Personally, I have diminished confidence in the backcourt...16 games this post season of entirely poor/unexpected (especially after the previous 2 post seasons) stinky performances. I believe that threw off the entire team into also not being at their optimum. This is of course going to be a difficult and interesting off season....I hope.

[Barolt]

Can I just say .. this is some quality discussion going on in here boys ... love it.

I think something that needs to be considered is that Cleveland, OKC and Golden State are #1, #2 and #3 in the league in Salary Cap budget. The Raptors aren't even CLOSE to them in terms of spending. AND we have a Top-10 pick, an asset that many teams would tank for in and of itself. We have too many assets and too much flexibility to be treadmilling ... to continue with the running analogy, treadmilling implies never moving forward .. running on the spot .. we made huge strides this season, regardless of post-season play, and simply ran directly into the Wall that is Lebron James. Even if/when we sign Durant, we'll still have trouble getting past Lebron and the Cavs.
If we maintain the status quo for another 3 years seeing if it'll just somehow work, then I would agree .. but that's still too far out.

I think you're right, but...

Two guys(Curry and LeBron), who might be two of the top 10 players ever are going to be in their primes for the next 4-5 years. So chances are, we're better off planning to hit our window in ~4 years time. Which works just fine for JV, but not for DeMar or Lowry.

Which is a big reason why I favor the plan that I do.

[Chr1s1anL]

I think you're right, but...

Two guys(Curry and LeBron), who might be two of the top 10 players ever are going to be in their primes for the next 4-5 years. So chances are, we're better off planning to hit our window in ~4 years time. Which works just fine for JV, but not for DeMar or Lowry.

Which is a big reason why I favor the plan that I do.

JV is 24 and DD is 26...

[Barolt]

JV is 24 and DD is 26...

In four years time... JV is 28, being paid 16m and will be just starting his next contract. DeMar will be 30, being paid 32 million and a year away from another free agency.

That's a huge difference.

[DanH]

In four years time... JV is 28, being paid 16m and will be just starting his next contract. DeMar will be 30, being paid 32 million and a year away from another free agency.

That's a huge difference.

No way in hell JV is making 16M 4 years from now. He'll get a big raise on his next contract.

[Barolt]

No way in hell JV is making 16M 4 years from now. He'll get a big raise on his next contract.

His extension is 4/64, starting next year. So that'll be what he'll have made going into that summer, right?

[Bendit]

Can I just say .. this is some quality discussion going on in here boys ... love it.

I think something that needs to be considered is that Cleveland, OKC and Golden State are #1, #2 and #3 in the league in Salary Cap budget. The Raptors aren't even CLOSE to them in terms of spending. AND we have a Top-10 pick, an asset that many teams would tank for in and of itself. We have too many assets and too much flexibility to be treadmilling ... to continue with the running analogy, treadmilling implies never moving forward .. running on the spot .. we made huge strides this season, regardless of post-season play, and simply ran directly into the Wall that is Lebron James. Even if/when we sign Durant, we'll still have trouble getting past Lebron and the Cavs.
If we maintain the status quo for another 3 years seeing if it'll just somehow work, then I would agree .. but that's still too far out.

I regret I wasn't more clear at the outset that my pseudo OP of this morning sought to rephrase the original thread title from "Are we treadmilling" to the intended "How to avoid the treadmill going forward".

Good point on the spending.

[DanH]

His extension is 4/64, starting next year. So that'll be what he'll have made going into that summer, right?

Player option in the 4th year. He's going to opt out for sure.

[DogeLover1234]

Can I just say .. this is some quality discussion going on in here boys ... love it.

I think something that needs to be considered is that Cleveland, OKC and Golden State are #1, #2 and #3 in the league in Salary Cap budget. The Raptors aren't even CLOSE to them in terms of spending. AND we have a Top-10 pick, an asset that many teams would tank for in and of itself. We have too many assets and too much flexibility to be treadmilling ... to continue with the running analogy, treadmilling implies never moving forward .. running on the spot .. we made huge strides this season, regardless of post-season play, and simply ran directly into the Wall that is Lebron James. Even if/when we sign Durant, we'll still have trouble getting past Lebron and the Cavs.
If we maintain the status quo for another 3 years seeing if it'll just somehow work, then I would agree .. but that's still too far out.

The thing is, why spend so much money unless you have amazing top end talent? Otherwise, it just cripples your ability to get that top end talent, in free agency or even trade. I don't think its fair to compare this team to those teams you mentioned, because the Raps don't have a go to, superstar player like they do. The roster as constructed is filled with value players who play beyond the worth of their contracts, but just aren't as talented as those other teams. With a few moves (not major), improved injury luck, internal development and luck I think this team could improve in the playoffs for a few more years, but its worth noting that other eastern teams will get better too, making Raptors marginal improvements less significant. Indiana and Boston are well positioned to make a pretty big leap to be top end Eastern teams, Orlando, Detroit, Milwaukee, all could go from fringe playoff teams to legit playoff teams soon, etc.

Basically, I don't think this team has reached their ceiling, but they are closer to their ceiling than most of the other Eastern Conference teams.

[Barolt]

Player option in the 4th year. He's going to opt out for sure.

Ah, fair enough.

Even still, he'll be two years younger and just starting on his max deal, rather than at the tail end of it.

[white men can't jump]

Ah, fair enough.

Even still, he'll be two years younger and just starting on his max deal, rather than at the tail end of it.

Two years younger than DeMar? Actually 3. DeMar turns 27 in early August, JV just turned 24.

[KeonClark]

I don't think you can ever call a team treadmilling that won 56 games and has most of their core yet to reach their prime. I agree we've reached our ceiling with derozan in his current role. But there's still so much u can do with him. A brilliant trade where he and others bring a great return. Or a different move, whether trade draft or free agent, that relegates him to third or even fourth banana.

I will give Masai a little more time and trust. We HAVE slowly got better since his tenure began

[KHD]

Can I just say .. this is some quality discussion going on in here boys ... love it.

I think something that needs to be considered is that Cleveland, OKC and Golden State are #1, #2 and #3 in the league in Salary Cap budget. The Raptors aren't even CLOSE to them in terms of spending. AND we have a Top-10 pick, an asset that many teams would tank for in and of itself. We have too many assets and too much flexibility to be treadmilling ... to continue with the running analogy, treadmilling implies never moving forward .. running on the spot .. we made huge strides this season, regardless of post-season play, and simply ran directly into the Wall that is Lebron James. Even if/when we sign Durant, we'll still have trouble getting past Lebron and the Cavs.
If we maintain the status quo for another 3 years seeing if it'll just somehow work, then I would agree .. but that's still too far out.

not sure when this is from exactly but yeah... cavaliers are blowing the league away with spending.

let them have their Manchester City moment. Once it happens Dan Gilbert is going to cheap out. book it.