OK. Markieff Morris a Raptor? Really??

[JWash]

It's kinda funny how many of these articles I'm seeing online that only mention Markieff's alleged interest in the Rockets while seemingly ignoring the fact that the Raptors exist.

[Heatdreamer]

Markieff could be the high post PF that we require and JV could be a Low post man in the offensive scheme of things . Markieff is a starter and we hope PPat is a starter. PF are not nice people ask Maurice Lucas, Charles Oakley. Tough , Strong and MEAN.

[BS10]

In reading up on all this, I've seen it suggested several times that "fielding the best team possible while still allowing for flexibility" was where Bryan Colangelo went wrong. And while I initially interpreted Masai's "sometimes you've got to take a step backward" as referring to the playoff loss, I'm not so sure now.

I've said, quite a few times, that I'm not a pretending to be a bona-fide talent assessor. I'm just studying industry assessments, drawing inferences and extrapolating. But there is quite a body of opinion out there that a move for Morris makes sense, for the Raptors specifically. And that opinion is at least consistent with the prevailing RR opinion about our power forward situation entering the free agent period we're in (and even looking forward to the 2016 draft): It is the single main area that needs improving.

Morris seems a low-risk opportunity because of his skill-set and, especially, his contract. It doesn't seem we'd be taking on any additional salary by bringing him in. No one is seriously suggesting he's likely a down-grade from Ppat. It's an unusual situation at an unusual time of year.

But could he make us a contender in the east? I think it's a real possibility. But, as is so often said, the games "aren't played on paper". Maybe we get the opposite of the "Rudy Gay effect"

Personally, I think jettisoning T-Ross is the biggest risk, because we've lost so much bench scoring. I think he's the wild card here.

But opportunity is knocking. There's a "gift-horse" - or is that a "Trojan horse" - at the door.

I'll easily concede that it's a good thing that Masai will either open that door or not. It won't be me. I'm just talking here.

I agree 100%. It's a low risk, high reward move. If you think about it, if Morris doesn't work out, do you think his contract and value as a very competent and competitive basketball player is un-tradeable to another team? Many teams would definitely still be interested in acquiring him for nothing else than but because his contract is so cheap. However, If he does work out and becomes the PF that our team needs then we've saved multiple years of trying to develop a PF and money with our salary cap that can be delegated elsewhere.

Its just a smart move all around to attempt to pry him from PHX. Whatever the offer may be, without giving up pieces from our core, Masai should be willing to trade players that are not in our plans for the long term future, including 2pat or Ross.

[Snooch]

I'm not going to respond with another obfuscating cloud of statistics. But how about this single stat: Markieff's ppg is 15.3. Ppat's is 8.0

So many are continually arguing that DeMar's usage is so high that the only thing we can do is to trade our all-star Shooting guard. Which you recommend in the same post.

Yet the idea of bringing in a bigger, higher DRPM and more productive, western-conference-starting PF (to go along with our new legitimate 3-point threat in DeMarre Carroll) is simply a bad idea.

There is a wild sort of inconsistency in this, I think. To say the least.

there is far more to determining a players value than PPG.

How many shots?
Usage rate?
Etc....

[mcHAPPY]

I'm done with that. But it was fair comment.

Why are you done? Earlier in thread you stated (which was modified by a moderator):

Instead of trying to undermine the speculation, how's about dealing with the most compelling fact: A cheap, young PF from the west has suddenly - and very dramatically - just insisted on a trade. And in no uncertain terms.

Most agree that getting an upgrade at PF was the only thing Masai couldn't get done for next season.

There are reasons available to gainsay the acquisition. And Markieff is not LaMarcus Aldridge. But if you don't want to discuss the merits of the trade, maybe you could ... find something else to do???

So after your suggestion above, I make 2 posts, one of which you cherry picked in reply, and on the second you're done?

Are you saying you only want to discuss with people who agree with you?

Are you saying there are no other long term options than Morris?

Are you stating that you know better than everyone here and even raptors front office?


Now normally I'd let this go but you've been ragging on me all day and now after basing an argument on PPG, which I still am in shock over, which was thoroughly refuted, you want to take your ball and go home?

You're new here, and this is just my opinion, but this is not a good way to gain credibility in the community amongst posters who provide sound reasoning to their ideas and opinions. And again, just my opinion, but those are the posters that make the place worth coming back for and differentiates over a place like RealGM.

[S.R.]

For me a couple strong points for going after Morris would be that he's a better defender and that he's a more talented basketball player. There's a pretty basic premise that if you can upgrade the talent on your team, you do it and then figure things out later. Maybe one or two more dominoes have to fall for things to fit perfectly, but that's doable. There's also a pretty reliable premise that whoever gets the best player in a trade wins the trade. Not necessarily true if the best player is overrated, dysfunctional, or on a bad contract. Morris is in the danger zone there with off-court issues and immaturity risks.

It is tough to see how the Raps can acquire Morris without leaving a hole somewhere else. Ideally you'd just drop Scola from this roster, make Morris your starting PF, PP your backup PF, and keep Ross at the backup 2/3. Both PP and Ross would be needed off the bench and their range is needed on this team, even after the acquisition of Morris.

If you acquire Morris but leave a PP/Ross-sized hole somewhere else, are the Raps much further ahead? Guard defense would be very thin if Ross went out and spacing would be difficult if Patterson went out.

I find it hard to know if I'm overvaluing our role players vs. Morris because I haven't really watched him enough.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Please comment about the topic, debate differences of opinions, and suggest whatever Morris-related trade proposals you can dream up... but there's no need to comment about or question other posters.

Come on RR, you're/we're better than that.

[S.R.]

Why are you done? Earlier in thread you stated (which was modified by a moderator):




So after your suggestion above, I make 2 posts, one of which you cherry picked in reply, and on the second you're done?

Are you saying you only want to discuss with people who agree with you?

Are you saying there are no other long term options than Morris?

Are you stating that you know better than everyone here and even raptors front office?


Now normally I'd let this go but you've been ragging on me all day and now after basing an argument on PPG, which I still am in shock over, which was thoroughly refuted, you want to take your ball and go home?

You're new here, and this is just my opinion, but this is not a good way to gain credibility in the community amongst posters who provide sound reasoning to their ideas and opinions. And again, just my opinion, but those are the posters that make the place worth coming back for and differentiates over a place like RealGM.

This isn't RealGM? I think I'm lost. Turned left at Google, locked my doors and drove fast through hoopshype.ca, used to loiter on RaptorBlog, and somehow ended up here.

[mcHAPPY]

Please comment about the topic, debate differences of opinions, and suggest whatever Morris-related trade proposals you can dream up... but there's no need to comment about or question other posters.

Come on RR, you're/we're better than that.

You're right.

And I do apologize.

I am a little frustrated with being repeatedly badgered only to provide what was asked of me and then the person no longer willing to engage after just 2 posts.

I'll try to keep my frustrations in check.

[BS10]

For me a couple strong points for going after Morris would be that he's a better defender and that he's a more talented basketball player. There's a pretty basic premise that if you can upgrade the talent on your team, you do it and then figure things out later. Maybe one or two more dominoes have to fall for things to fit perfectly, but that's doable. There's also a pretty reliable premise that whoever gets the best player in a trade wins the trade. Not necessarily true if the best player is overrated, dysfunctional, or on a bad contract. Morris is in the danger zone there with off-court issues and immaturity risks.

It is tough to see how the Raps can acquire Morris without leaving a hole somewhere else. Ideally you'd just drop Scola from this roster, make Morris your starting PF, PP your backup PF, and keep Ross at the backup 2/3. Both PP and Ross would be needed off the bench and their range is needed on this team, even after the acquisition of Morris.

If you acquire Morris but leave a PP/Ross-sized hole somewhere else, are the Raps much further ahead? Guard defense would be very thin if Ross went out and spacing would be difficult if Patterson went out.

I find it hard to know if I'm overvaluing our role players vs. Morris because I haven't really watched him enough.

I've already mentioned that if you acquire Morris in exchange for either PP/Ross we can easily replace their 3-pt shooting (thats why we want to keep them right?) with another player during the 2016 free agency. There's lots of capable shooters that we can add by simply signing them next off-season. I think Ross/PP scoring punch is a dime a dozen.

However, getting someone with Morris' talent of reliable shooting in crunch time, defensive capabilities, mid-range game, post game , and salary cap friendly contract doesn't come around too often. We should be looking to improve our core for the long term, and i believe MM will definitely be an improvement to our core.

I personally think we are way ahead of the game if we have a complete starting line up of guys that play high caliber basketball. In the east, there are not many teams that have great players 1-5. We'll be one of them.

Plus, if we ever want to win a playoff series or really compete in the playoffs, the old adage is "offence wins regular season games, defence wins championship". We've improved our defence this off-season by adding a number of guys that have strong defensive skills but our starting line up also needs improvement on the defensive end as well-- I don't think Carroll is enough. Getting MM helps close that gap.

[Chr1s1anL]

Talent trumps everything. If Masai has a chance to get a more talented player in a position of need. You have to do it. Plus Masai loves tough guys.

[Cody73]

Can a Kief trade start with JJ at all?



If so.....

[Mr.Z]

Can a Kief trade start with JJ at all?



If so.....

I don't think JJ should be traded. Hes an extremely versatile player who given the right minutes could have a tremendous impact on the court.
I think most people feel he wasn't given a fair shot last season to prove his worth.

[JWash]

I don't think JJ should be traded. Hes an extremely versatile player who given the right minutes could have a tremendous impact on the court.
I think most people feel he wasn't given a fair shot last season to prove his worth.

This isn't going to happen though. Ross has basically been moved to backup 2/3 and we've brought in DeMarre who's going to get huge minutes at the 3 spot.

JJ can only play 3 and 4, there are 96 available minutes there.

Carroll - ~30
DeRozan - ~10 (most minutes will be at the 2 I'm sure but he'll play 3 when we go with 2 PGs)
Ross - ~10
2Pat - ~25
Scola - ~20

That's ~95 minutes right there.

I like JJ as much as the next guy but I don't see him getting much run. If moving him and another piece/prospect can help us land Markieff I'm all for it.

[Cody73]

This isn't going to happen though. Ross has basically been moved to backup 2/3 and we've brought in DeMarre who's going to get huge minutes at the 3 spot.

JJ can only play 3 and 4, there are 96 available minutes there.

Carroll - ~30
DeRozan - ~10 (most minutes will be at the 2 I'm sure but he'll play 3 when we go with 2 PGs)
Ross - ~10
2Pat - ~25
Scola - ~20

That's ~95 minutes right there.

I like JJ as much as the next guy but I don't see him getting much run. If moving him and another piece/prospect can help us land Markieff I'm all for it.

My thoughts exactly. JJ would get the time he deserves in PHX.