OK. Markieff Morris a Raptor? Really??

[DanH]

Oh, I don't think he's a threat to the character of a team. I just think he should shut up and act like an adult.

[Puffer]

Yeah, but if I understand you correctly ... whether he is "a threat to the character of the team" is what we were discussing. It's an element in taking a position on the player, as you have recognized.

So ..... one muddles along ....

As I suggested, all we have is mostly unfounded speculation. Simpler to simply trust Masai because he likely has access to facts we don't. The fact that Markieff isn't a Raptor yet suggests to me that Masai doesn't see trading for him as being of benefit to the team. That's good enough for me.

[Apollo]

Can't Dropkick This Guy Far Enough Away From Toronto

The guy is an average power forward with a lot of baggage. Yeah, the Suns dealt his brother and yeah he probably took less money to try to stay with his brother but there wasn't a "no trade clause" in his contract and he knew this and he knew the risk. If he didn't realize he was in a business and that he should be treating it like a business then he should fire his agent or give back the money to the Suns and move along.

Everything about him stinks of immaturity and he's not worth the hassle. We're not talking about a high upside guy like Cousins, we're talking about a guy who probably would perform no better than Amir Johnson. Amir on the other hand is mature.

Also it is of note that he sounds like the exact opposite of what Ujiri is trying to foster in Toronto. The Raptors will be just fine without him and he's not the missing piece to a title or a second round bid even.

[MACK11]

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314982

Listen around the 5min mark.

Suns radio guy texted Markieff asking if he would do an interview. He agreed. Markieff didn't pick up the phone, then texted "Stop it clown, why would I give you an interview?" followed by 4 crying emojis before adding "Shut up. Get off my line"

[Axel]

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314982

Listen around the 5min mark.

Suns radio guy texted Markieff asking if he would do an interview. He agreed. Markieff didn't pick up the phone, then texted "Stop it clown, why would I give you an interview?" followed by 4 crying emojis before adding "Shut up. Get off my line"

Wow, good find.

[Wild-ling#1]

The guy is an average power forward with a lot of baggage. Yeah, the Suns dealt his brother and yeah he probably took less money to try to stay with his brother but there wasn't a "no trade clause" in his contract and he knew this and he knew the risk. If he didn't realize he was in a business and that he should be treating it like a business then he should fire his agent or give back the money to the Suns and move along.

Everything about him stinks of immaturity and he's not worth the hassle. We're not talking about a high upside guy like Cousins, we're talking about a guy who probably would perform no better than Amir Johnson. Amir on the other hand is mature.

Also it is of note that he sounds like the exact opposite of what Ujiri is trying to foster in Toronto. The Raptors will be just fine without him and he's not the missing piece to a title or a second round bid even.

In discussing this, at great length (and ultimately engaging in rather heated debate, I think), I cited the SI ranking which puts Markieff ahead of Amir Johnson and Kenneth Faried and even Tristan Thompson (never mind Patrick Patterson) as a player to watch in 2016.

I also linked an in-depth Grantland piece which noted, in detail, his strength and weaknesses as a 25-year-old "big" and so gave some credence to the "he might be nothing special" viewpoint ... but which clearly opined, nevertheless, that he might also become something quite special in the next few years - so that teams might want to consider adding him. There are other writers who share, or acknowledge the viability, of this view.

And yet other posters, including moderators, continue to set out the contrary view (fine) and state it as fact. That he's an average power forward (fair enough - but he's just had his first season as a starter) or even that he is a "fringe" starter or not good enough to start.

I'm not going into his dispute with the Suns again, save to say that there are two sides to the matter. There just are.

But I don't really understand why people want to offer such settled opinions. For me, Morris is most like T-Ross - he's intriguing as a player. Except that he has taken up his role and is not lacking in "moxy" or toughness.

Anyway. Who knows. As I've said .. it's just a discussion. It shouldn't divide a community. Not a voluntary community where it's all about enjoying discussions.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314982

Listen around the 5min mark.

Suns radio guy texted Markieff asking if he would do an interview. He agreed. Markieff didn't pick up the phone, then texted "Stop it clown, why would I give you an interview?" followed by 4 crying emojis before adding "Shut up. Get off my line"

It almost sounds like Morris is acting in an unprofessional, immature and short-sighted manner. I stick by my previous statement - if it sounds like a diva and acts like a diva... and that's not nearly as bad as "punk-ass bitch" that the radio announcer called him, due to his actions this offseason.

[Primer]

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=314982

Listen around the 5min mark.

Suns radio guy texted Markieff asking if he would do an interview. He agreed. Markieff didn't pick up the phone, then texted "Stop it clown, why would I give you an interview?" followed by 4 crying emojis before adding "Shut up. Get off my line"

Real class act.

[Apollo]

The Rebuttal:

In discussing this, at great length (and ultimately engaging in rather heated debate, I think), I cited the SI ranking which puts Markieff ahead of Amir Johnson and Kenneth Faried and even Tristan Thompson (never mind Patrick Patterson) as a player to watch in 2016.

I also linked an in-depth Grantland piece which noted, in detail, his strength and weaknesses as a 25-year-old "big" and so gave some credence to the "he might be nothing special" viewpoint ... but which clearly opined, nevertheless, that he might also become something quite special in the next few years - so that teams might want to consider adding him. There are other writers who share, or acknowledge the viability, of this view.

And yet other posters, including moderators, continue to set out the contrary view (fine) and state it as fact. That he's an average power forward (fair enough - but he's just had his first season as a starter) or even that he is a "fringe" starter or not good enough to start.

If you watch him play, look at his basic stats along with his advanced stats he's nothing special and certainly no better a player than Amir Johnson. And Amir is a slightly above average player who is best suited in a bench role.

Markieff is already "special". Just look at his man-child tantrums and checkered past. 'Odd' can be considered 'special', right?

You're taking opinion based articles and taking that as fact. Their opinions carry no more weight than anyone in here. They're correct no more than anyone in here. At least some of the people in here say "my bad, I was wrong about that" when they get it wrong.

I'm not going into his dispute with the Suns again, save to say that there are two sides to the matter. There just are.

There are two sides. He signed a deal to stick around with his brother. There wasn't a no trade clause in place. The Suns may have told him they didn't plan on seperating the twins. His brother got traded and now he's so enraged that he's shut it down and demanded a trade. That's the facts. I would have traded his brother too if it benefited the team; that's my side to it.

But I don't really understand why people want to offer such settled opinions. For me, Morris is most like T-Ross - he's intriguing as a player. Except that he has taken up his role and is not lacking in "moxy" or toughness.

Except Ross is acting like a professional: keeping his nose clean and focusing on helping his team.

Anyway. Who knows. As I've said .. it's just a discussion. It shouldn't divide a community. Not a voluntary community where it's all about enjoying discussions.

I agree. If you like that cry baby I'm not going to hold it against you.

[Wild-ling#1]

The exchange was odd. But it was all second hand info from some drive-time radio jocks. Hm.

But I listened on to the radio piece itself and the hosts went on to report (at about the 8-1/2 min. mark) that at the Suns uniform unveiling, Hornacek was interviewed and said he was optimistic that fences would be mended. And that Kieff tweeted out, in response, yesterday:

"I don't accept apologies. You did what made you happy at the expense of my emotions. And I understand but I won't respect it."

The radio hosts then went on to question why it is that the Suns keep acting as if this will be resolved, when it's clearly at "Def-Con 2"?

Kieff's tweet is here. https://twitter.com/keefmorris

You might note that it doesn't seem he has tweeted much about all this, in over a month, save to re-tweet the fine notice and to tweet, September 3rd, "My future won't be in Phoenix - #FOE" remark he made to a reporter in early August.

Drive hour radio hosts say a lot of things. But Morris clearly thinks that, rather than acting like a "brat" (or worse), as some suggest, he's acting on principle.

Anyone who has ever acted on principle will know that such a situation only arises when it would be easier, even much easier, to do some other thing. And that you will always have a host of loud detractors, in the doing of it. Acting on principle commonly costs you. It's the nature of the thing. Do I know what "the truth" of all this is? Nope. But there are two sides ... I am prepared to insist on that.

Anyway ... it doesn't seem like things are headed for a peaceful solution in Phoenix. No doubt - wherever he lands, there'll be a lot of eye-balls on the guy. And there'll be one team very happy - or maybe very unhappy, ultimately .... and a lot of other GM's/fans thinking about what might have been - for better or for worse.

Whatever happens, I'll be very interested, after all this, to see what it takes - and what someone will give up - to get him.

[Katman]

Let's see if his "principles" will survive missing paychecks. Until THAT happens it's all posturing.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

But Morris clearly thinks that, rather than acting like a "brat" (or worse), as some suggest, he's acting on principle.

Anyone who has ever acted on principle will know that such a situation only arises when it would be easier, even much easier, to do some other thing. And that you will always have a host of loud detractors, in the doing of it. Acting on principle commonly costs you. It's the nature of the thing.

What a lot of people feel, and not just here on RR, is that there is no principle for Morris to act upon and/or that no principle justifies his reaction and actions.

You, and definitely Morris, are trying to make it sound like the Suns' management and franchise somehow acted unethically, immorally, or in some other manner to deliberately and maliciously hurt the Morris brothers. That's just not the case, which sort of undermines the whole 'acting on principle' rationale. Even if he was acting on principle, there are plenty of professional and mature ways to go about achieving his desired outcome, that would avoid making him look like a melodramatic diva, while potentially hurting his prospects for future employment.

Two legitimate reasons have been suggested, as possible motivations for the trading of his brother: trade away a player that had run-ins with the coaching staff (played his way out of town) and clear cap space to pursue the marquee free agent (make the team better), the latter of which is known to be a fact. Could the GM have let the twins know prior to the trade? Maybe. Could the GM be worrying about free agency and building a winning team, moreso than the emotions of two grown men that are well aware that the NBA is a business? Definitely.

The bottom line is that Morris overreacted and let his emotions get the better of him.

[Wild-ling#1]

If you watch him play, look at his basic stats along with his advanced stats he's nothing special and certainly no better a player than Amir Johnson. And Amir is a slightly above average player who is best suited in a bench role.

Markieff is already "special". Just look at his man-child tantrums and checkered past. 'Odd' can be considered 'special', right?

You're taking opinion based articles and taking that as fact. Their opinions carry no more weight than anyone in here. They're correct no more than anyone in here. At least some of the people in here say "my bad, I was wrong about that" when they get it wrong.

There are two sides. He signed a deal to stick around with his brother. There wasn't a no trade clause in place. The Suns may have told him they didn't plan on seperating the twins. His brother got traded and now he's so enraged that he's shut it down and demanded a trade. That's the facts. I would have traded his brother too if it benefited the team; that's my side to it.

Except Ross is acting like a professional: keeping his nose clean and focusing on helping his team.

I agree. If you like that cry baby I'm not going to hold it against you.

Wow. I did not quote SI as fact (as you did your view). I plainly and explicitly cited it to show there are views, in respected media, that differ significantly from yours.

If Amir and Markieff are similar players - above average - then:

1) Amir is a great guy compared to a guy who's character is suspect (No problem giving you that)
2)He's a better rebounder/rim-protector, at this point, but
3)He's older (though not old, at 28)
4) His wonky ankles will likely require him to play limited minutes, or come off the bench, where Markieff is a younger, iron-man type and
5) Amir makes $12M for the next two years, while Markieff will make $8M for the next four.

I don't think you have to adopt Sports IIlustrated's lofty view of Markieff (relative to Amir/Tristan/Patterson as PFs) to be intrigued by Morris. I think you can adopt the Grantland view - that he might be something "special". If you acknowledge that we have a kind of "free-play" (in the US football sense) this year, at PF, we might be wise to make some kind of offer here.

As for your "cry-baby" and sundry remarks - knock yourself out, dude.

[Apollo]

You clearly implied that SI and Grantland have some sort of superiority to the rest of us. If you feel that way then knock yourself out.

Amir was a good teammate and as far as I know he kept his nose clean in Toronto. Raptors don't need to take on problem child and the minimal discount isn't worth it. This is a professional world class office now, they're doing it the right way. Pro ball isn't about being a day trader of assets. It's important to find value but you also need to ponder the team psychology/chemistry aspects of additions and subtractions. I would argue that Morris will be addition by subtraction for the Suns someday soon.

What a lot of people feel, and not just here on RR, is that there is no principle for Morris to act upon and/or that no principle justifies his reaction and actions.

You, and definitely Morris, are trying to make it sound like the Suns' management and franchise somehow acted unethically, immorally, or in some other manner to deliberately and maliciously hurt the Morris brothers. That's just not the case, which sort of undermines the whole 'acting on principle' rationale. Even if he was acting on principle, there are plenty of professional and mature ways to go about achieving his desired outcome, that would avoid making him look like a melodramatic diva, while potentially hurting his prospects for future employment.

Agreed. He's portraying himself as a troubled man child who might be not worth the trouble. His brother had signed a business deal with the Suns and they lived up to their end as there was no clause preventing a trade. The Morris' took a very common activity personally. You only get a couple shots when you develop the label he's earning...

[Wild-ling#1]

You clearly implied that SI and Grantland have some sort of superiority to the rest of us. If you feel that way then knock yourself out.

Amir was a good teammate and as far as I know he kept his nose clean in Toronto. Raptors don't need to take on problem child and the minimal discount isn't worth it. This is a professional world class office now, they're doing it the right way. Pro ball isn't about being a day trader of assets. It's important to find value but you also need to ponder the team psychology/chemistry aspects of additions and subtractions. I would argue that Morris will be addition by subtraction for the Suns someday soon.

As I've noted, I am sympathetic to this argument (the chemistry argument).

It was, in fact, my initial view (in starting this thread). But, after further reading, discussion and reflection, the idea of swapping Ppat for Markieff has come to excite me enough that I'd be willing to make a trade along those lines. And I had this change of heart/mind before the SI piece came out. Obviously, I wouldn't be here if I didn't think I could learn and enhance my enjoyment. And I prefer Masai's view to my own, no doubt.

And so I don't think you need to feel bad because I contrasted SI's view of the matter with yours ...