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How do we fix our defense?

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  • Good discussion, and likely the problems is a combination of all the points being made. Losing Greer and Biz are certainly factors. So is the schedule. But I don't think its fair to point to a single player, whether it's Demar or JV or whomever. Demar was never a good defender, and at least he's putting up an efficient 30 a night, which is more than we can say about Carroll or Cojo, who are supposed to be great defenders. Ultimately, I think alot of it comes down to effort, and I'm not letting Demar off the hook here. It appeared to me that he was making a stronger effort early on in the season, getting through screens and sticking to his man in off ball situations at least. But he has dropped off lately. And Lowry, Carroll, and Ross have also been bad, and poor Norman has played most of his minutes against some the best offensive small forwards the east has to offer. Patterson seems to be the only guy on the team that takes pride in putting forth a strong defensive effort consistently. Our leaders have to lead. They don't have to be shut down of course, but they have to be better and then maybe the rest will follow. All the players have weaknesses, but collectively they need to be better. They can be better. If they can do it on O, they should be able to do it on D.

    Given that Patterson isn't a great rebounder or shot blocker or steal producer, but has strong defensive stats and seems to elevate every lineup he is in defensively, his value is coming from somewhere. He makes good reads and can defend the PnR well and recover to his man if necessary. I'm not sure if this is necessarily indicative of defensive impact, but I'd be interested in knowing if our opponents tend to go deeper into the shot clock when Patterson is on the floor? I wonder if his ability to help snuff out the initial action is leading to teams maybe taking lesser quality shots, which may be indicated by how deep they go in the shot clock? Anyone able to dig out numbers for that? Or is it even a worthwhile hypothesis? Given my assumption that effort is the biggest factor, I wonder if guys putting forth a stronger effort would help our defense collectively and result in teams shooting later in the clock, which MAY indicate lesser quality shots.

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    • Barolt wrote: View Post
      I read it, and really enjoyed it. Interesting how many of the same conclusions you and I came to seperately.
      You're both looking at the exact same on/off +/- and RTG stats and using them to draw conclusions. It would be more interesting if the two of you came to completely different conclusions....

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      • tDotted wrote: View Post
        I'll say this: I've always been a believer in adjusting schemes to fit your personnel, and not vice versa. Gonna stick by that here. Not every great defensive team is blessed with a rim protector.. you have to find a way to get stops. Communication, rotations and effort have been lacking severely and I don't think some guy blocking 1-2 shots a game is going to fix that.
        Amen. Good defensive players come in all sorts, it's all about playing to our strengths and then executing. Execution has been subpar lately and the scheme is debatable.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
          The 2 best teams in the league have no rim protection. That should tell you something about how we put too much on jv to be the be all, end all. What they do have is shut down small forwards who can stop premier scorers. That's what carroll was brought in for and..yeah. they have also have premier scramble defenses that switch alertly. We lack a combination of effort (demar, demarre) sand speed (lowry, valanciunas, 2pat) ross is a good defender getting (too lazy to look up) 18 min a night.

          Our defense is predicated on closing up the middle and giving up the long ball. The thing is we do a horrible job closing on shooters. They're making 3s, we're not.
          The best 2 teams in the league aren't even that good at defense. Cleveland is middle of the pack and GSW is one of the worst. You know what they do have? The last 3 MVPs. They can get by with bad defence. Raptors Can't. They also use mobile bigs(Draymond/Thompson) to close out the games on defense.

          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
          @Chr1st1anL

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          • tDotted wrote: View Post
            Wait hold up. The Magic need a SF. This could work
            Carroll and Siakam for Aaron Gordon and Biz. Does that work?

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            • golden wrote: View Post
              Carroll and Siakam for Aaron Gordon and Biz. Does that work?
              Not sure..

              To the trade machine!

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              • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                The best 2 teams in the league aren't even that good at defense. Cleveland is middle of the pack and GSW is one of the worst. You know what they do have? The last 3 MVPs. They can get by with bad defence. Raptors Can't. They also use mobile bigs(Draymond/Thompson) to close out the games on defense.

                Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                How is golden state one of the worst? They were 5th in def rtg last year and 1st the year before. You don't go 73 9 with "one of the worst defenses" I don't care how many you score
                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                • golden wrote: View Post
                  Carroll and Siakam for Aaron Gordon and Biz. Does that work?
                  Biz can't be traded yet so there goes that. Carroll + Siakam works for Ibaka but I doubt they would do that for somebody they traded their future for haha

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                  • We're back to wanting to pay Biyombo 17M to be a backup C, or we're back to wanting Biyombo to be a starting C? Either way, count me out.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      How is golden state one of the worst? They were 5th in def rtg last year and 1st the year before. You don't go 73 9 with "one of the worst defenses" I don't care how many you score
                      Go check where they are ranked this year. Losing your best rim protector will do that. Especially when you have a poor defender at the guard spots.

                      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                      Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Tue Nov 22, 2016, 11:17 PM.
                      @Chr1st1anL

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        We're back to wanting to pay Biyombo 17M to be a backup C, or we're back to wanting Biyombo to be a starting C? Either way, count me out.
                        I agree with what you are saying but what is a solution ? It seems like the Coach thinks JV is the problem, but is he really the problem ???

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                        • McRealistic wrote: View Post
                          I agree with what you are saying but what is a solution ? It seems like the Coach thinks JV is the problem, but is he really the problem ???
                          IMO, no. He might be A problem, but not THE problem. And I think his positives offensively outweigh his limitations defensively.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            How is golden state one of the worst? They were 5th in def rtg last year and 1st the year before. You don't go 73 9 with "one of the worst defenses" I don't care how many you score
                            They're 16th in Dratg. But overall his point is sound. You can get away with mediocre defense if you've got MVPs on the roster.

                            We can't afford to be bad defensively, and it shows in our record.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              We're back to wanting to pay Biyombo 17M to be a backup C, or we're back to wanting Biyombo to be a starting C? Either way, count me out.
                              I'd much rather force-feed Bebe enough minutes to see if he can give us some of the same impact as Bismack. This is really his first true opportunity with the big squad and I'll live with some mistakes over the next month or two.

                              But if Philly will take Joseph and a pick for Noel I think that's even more attractive. Obviously you have to deal with the backup PG slot again but CoJo is replaceable.

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                              • This thread is full of hate. Why is that? I get people being concerned about our defense, but overall its lack of desire on that end. Were getting to the point where I am saying FUCK IT & letting Lowry walk. I don't just feel defense us important, but offense is too. We have a very predictable offense, and that's what is going to burn us come playoff time.

                                One other thing: Sullinger hasn't played yet. He could be our lifeline. That or someone getting at this this team & telling them to smell the coffee.
                                Axel wrote:
                                Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                                Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

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