Everything 2017 Off-Season

[Nilanka]

"We're happy to see a couple All-Stars go West,"- Ujiri, admits the state of the East was one of the factors in bringing Lowry/Ibaka back

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) July 7, 2017

[Ebonhawke]

That's not as bad a trade for the Celts as it could have been, especially considering Bradley is gonna get paid. Not sure what Detroit is thinking?

Boston had certain limitations on the parameters of a deal with regards to salary. If the Pistons arent going to be able to jrep him after this season (Bradley's a free agent), then perhaps the Pistons are thinking that they can flip Bradley to another team for a better return than Morris.

[Chr1s1anL]

That's not as bad a trade for the Celts as it could have been, especially considering Bradley is gonna get paid. Not sure what Detroit is thinking?

That they would rather pay Bradley than KCP.

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[DanH]

BOS's rebounding is going to be even worse this year, somehow. Morris is a horrendous rebounder and as far as I can tell will probably be their starting 4?

[lewro]

One guy thinks Bradley is flipped, the other resigned.

[lewro]

BOS's rebounding is going to be even worse this year, somehow. Morris is a horrendous rebounder and as far as I can tell will probably be their starting 4?

See what they get out of zizic and theis

[Ebonhawke]

BOS's rebounding is going to be even worse this year, somehow. Morris is a horrendous rebounder and as far as I can tell will probably be their starting 4?

+ the loss of Bradley increases the likelihood of guards being able to penetrate into the lane, which will shift the defense, making boxing out on the defensive glass even more problematic for the Celtics.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Yeah, so exactly what I was saying. You only need a PF if you move JV to give Ibaka the majority of the C minutes.

Defensively Ibaka has proven to work better at the C spot a) against bench units and b) playing with a tremendous rebounder in Tucker at the forward spot. Tucker is gone, and we want Ibaka to start at C, in theory.

Faried can do the rebounding JV can do? Faried has never broken 20% TRB% or 24% DRB%. JV posted 21% and 29% last year. Nevermind all the other stuff he can't do that would fit terribly here, such as shoot outside of 10 feet (takes less than 10% of his shots from out there, versus JV's 30%), or defend worth a damn even compared to JV.

If we do move on from JV, I pray we don't grab a guy like Faried, who is just a worse version of JV with even more exaggerated weaknesses and fewer strengths, and is almost as expensive.

He literally has a 19.7% REB% last year and 19.0% the year before so setting 20% as a benchmark when you're clearly aware of that is a little disingenuous. Faried is a slightly worse rebounder than JV, while actually not causing us the same kind of issues on the defensive end. Faried doesn't shoot much from outside of 10 feet, but he's not asked to. He's clearly capable of doing it (at least to 16 feet away from the hoop) from looking at his percentages.

I don't really get what you're hoping for with JV, but it's clear the team is moving on from him. There's a reason why there's not much market for bigs like him and his contemporaries like Kanter are bench players.

[MixxAOR]

See what they get out of zizic and theis

Zizic looks bad. Slow in PNR and no rim protection.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Not saying I want faried but his trb% was 19.7 and JV was 20.8 last yr. That's pretty good for a guy half a foot shorter and 40lbs lighter. Dont really see how pj is a "tremendous rebounder" at pf and faried is not?
We should also consider that Denver had a logjam with nurkic/jokic and small ball with Gallo. Faried was amazing for team USA so his value might be depressed. Again, I don't want him but I'd take him ahead of Carroll for sure. Ahead of JV? It's kind of a wash but faried my have more upside and almost definitely more currency in the league.

He wasn't making any sound points. Faried is clearly an elite rebounder at the PF position. JV is a top tier center rebounder and Faried's numbers on the glass are comparable to his.

For the record 2Pat was not a good rebounder. The combination of Faried/Ibaka on the glass would be a lot better than 2Pat/JV.

[S.R.]

I'm a bit worried about Ibaka playing heavy minutes at the 5. He absolutely has looked to me like a guy who gets worn down, not just with a rolled ankle here and there but moreso from an energy perspective within games.

If JV is gone though, there are still a number of teams with bigger C's who use them how Toronto used JV, they start the game but play sporadically after that and are often not a part of closing lineups. In those cases you might throw Poeltl into the game earlier just to match up with that rotation. Poeltl has the capability to step up into that kind of role.

The kids are going to help improve this team defensively, but if JV goes we can add rebounding to three point shooting as a significant skills gap with this roster.

[DanH]

He wasn't making any sound points. Faried is clearly an elite rebounder at the PF position. JV is a top tier center rebounder and Faried's numbers on the glass are comparable to his.

For the record 2Pat was not a good rebounder. The combination of Faried/Ibaka on the glass would be a lot better than 2Pat/JV.

Faried makes up his rebounding on the offensive glass. He's elite there, no question, though as noted it concerns me how much he'll clog the paint to be able to chase those on the Raptors, or if he's asked to step out and shoot as you think he is capable of, that his offensive rebounding numbers will take a significant hit. The fact remains that his defensive rebounding is a clear step down from JV's, and that's the end where I worry about Serge at C.

I certainly never thought Pat was a great rebounder. His strengths lie more in fit with the team. Faried is a great rebounder but a horrid fit here.

[lewro]

I didn't say Faried wasn't a tremendous rebounder at PF - I just said he's not capable of replicating what JV (another tremendous rebounder) did at C, which is needed with Ibaka, a lesser rebounder, playing at C. While also not bringing any of the other strengths that helped JV contribute to the team, essentially outstripping him only in offensive rebounding rate (another potentially negative factor as it speaks to how much time he spends in the paint clogging up spacing) and raw foot speed, however useless he is at leveraging that into defensive effectiveness.

I think if DEN wants to move Faried, they'll have the same issues the Raps are likely having with JV. He doesn't fit the shooting and defence the league (and frankly especially the Raptors) wants now - even less so than JV does. And at a very similar cost. And without any of the upside that comes with JV's relative youth.

I can agree that I'd prefer him over Carroll, but I don't see a need at PF if Carroll is the one moved, so...

The market is better for faried than JV. JV upside? We will see about that 3pt shot. I've given up on his IQ.
The forum spends more time talking about JV than what's commensurate with his value imo. His contract and market are topical but skill and upside is a short convo that's been had repeatedly and at length for a whole yr now. I don't think there's anything left to say until we see him play again.

[MixxAOR]

Celtics rebounding is going to be trash. But I wonder how much do they care. I think at this point they are willing to sacrifice rebounding for offense. Crowder and Smart are next on a line. If not this year then next year. Ainge will not pay for them and they need minutes for rookies to develop.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I'm a bit worried about Ibaka playing heavy minutes at the 5. He absolutely has looked to me like a guy who gets worn down, not just with a rolled ankle here and there but moreso from an energy perspective within games.

If JV is gone though, there are still a number of teams with bigger C's who use them how Toronto used JV, they start the game but play sporadically after that and are often not a part of closing lineups. In those cases you might throw Poeltl into the game earlier just to match up with that rotation. Poeltl has the capability to step up into that kind of role.

The kids are going to help improve this team defensively, but if JV goes we can add rebounding to three point shooting as a significant skills gap with this roster.

But that's why we're talking about adding Faried. We know JV is the best rebounder on the team by far, but Faried is not far off him on the glass (literally 1% less on REB%) and causes us less issues on the defensive end of the floor. Faried can actually match up with small ball and bigger 4s and Ibaka can play the center role defensively as well.

The organization has talked about becoming more mobile and there's mutual agreement between the FO and Ibaka that he should be playing the 5. We have 2 cheap 5s behind him, including Poeltl who is locked up on a rookie scale deal for the next 3 years and we used a top 10 draft pick on him. Let's use the youth we have as depth at center and then look to spend money elsewhere where we actually need it like the 3/4 spots.