Everything Pascal Siakam

[planetmars]

Basically saying the teams that made the playoffs dont have to justify being capped out. Dan is trying to justify spending the same amount as them for a team that until proven otherwise is on the outside looking in

I'm likely not following the full discussion well then sorry.

But a capped out team is typically normal in today's NBA. The teams that are not capped out are typically rebuilding teams like your Spurs or Rockets. As they filled their team with rookie scale contracts. Miami was a fringe playoff team. They were in the play-in and lost their first game. But got to the finals. The Cavs are capped out and lost in the first round. As were the Clippers, Nets and Wolves. Not sure what cap management has anything to do for any of these teams. Everyone is usually capped out.

My point being that the Raptors being capped out is par for the course. Of course they haven't made a decision yet. If they rebuild then they won't be capped out. If they don't then they likely will be. Trades and the draft are still the best to avenues of improving the team, especially for markets that can't attract free agents. And that's true for a lot of the teams that did make the playoffs but didn't win it all.

But being capped out means nothing. In fact in the new CBA all teams have to have payrolls up to 90% of the cap now. So only can be below the cap by 10%. That means rebuilding teams are going to be spending money on vets even if they don't play.

[Yuri Gagarin]

I'm likely not following the full discussion well then sorry.

But a capped out team is typically normal in today's NBA. The teams that are not capped out are typically rebuilding teams like your Spurs or Rockets. As they filled their team with rookie scale contracts. Miami was a fringe playoff team. They were in the play-in and lost their first game. But got to the finals. The Cavs are capped out and lost in the first round. As were the Clippers, Nets and Wolves. Not sure what cap management has anything to do for any of these teams. Everyone is usually capped out.

My point being that the Raptors being capped out is par for the course. Of course they haven't made a decision yet. If they rebuild then they won't be capped out. If they don't then they likely will be. Trades and the draft are still the best to avenues of improving the team, especially for markets that can't attract free agents. And that's true for a lot of the teams that did make the playoffs but didn't win it all.

But being capped out means nothing. In fact in the new CBA all teams have to have payrolls up to 90% of the cap now. So only can be below the cap by 10%. That means rebuilding teams are going to be spending money on vets even if they don't play.

Theres a better chance im confused sorry lol. Basically im saying this team isnt good enough to go all in on

[DanH]

Thank god you are not the decision maker of this team because this is the most irresponsible and dumbest take of the offseason so far even how true it is in terms of the value over the denominator it is.

29 year old declining player at both ends of the court is not worth 30 million no matter what the fuck is the current cap

Well this is dumb. What if the cap was 1 billion dollars?

[DanH]

Theres a better chance im confused sorry lol. Basically im saying this team isnt good enough to go all in on

Which is why they haven’t gone all in on them, and re-signing guys this off-season is not “going all in” on them. You can always trade guys later.

You can recognize an all in move pretty easily. Let’s say a team trades a beloved core player plus pick for a flight risk superstar, their young C for a veteran C on his last legs, and spends into the tax for the first time in franchise history - that’s going all in. Spending above the cap to re-sign their own FAs to retain talent on the roster? Just regular operating procedure.

[The Claw Reborn]

Well this is dumb. What if the cap was 1 billion dollars?

Dumber to pay VanVleet way more than he deserved. Let the other teams commit that financial irresponsibility but not here.

[DanH]

Dumber to pay VanVleet way more than he deserved. Let the other teams commit that financial irresponsibility but not here.

That's the whole discussion though. How much a player deserves depends on the cap environment they are in, and denying that just removes all validity from any point you might try to make about it.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Which is why they haven’t gone all in on them, and re-signing guys this off-season is not “going all in” on them. You can always trade guys later.

You can recognize an all in move pretty easily. Let’s say a team trades a beloved core player plus pick for a flight risk superstar, their young C for a veteran C on his last legs, and spends into the tax for the first time in franchise history - that’s going all in. Spending above the cap to re-sign their own FAs to retain talent on the roster? Just regular operating procedure.

Retaining talent again. Hows that working out?

[The Claw Reborn]

That's the whole discussion though. How much a player deserves depends on the cap environment they are in, and denying that just removes all validity from any point you might try to make about it.

This is bullshit. So you just don’t take into account performance and fit? You basically pay haphazardly because that is what the cap environment dictates

[DanH]

This is bullshit. So you just don’t take into account performance and fit? You basically pay haphazardly because that is what the cap environment dictates

No, you absolutely take into account performance and fit, and use those to determine a percentage of the cap that a player is worth. And then depending on what the cap dollar amount is, that works out to a player dollar amount.

I'm saying you need to evaluate in the context of the cap. Anything else is insane, or you'd still be offering LeBron James 14M starting salary like the Heat did to put together their big three.

[DanH]

Retaining talent again. Hows that working out?

Pretty good! So far all the talent has been retained. We'll see how this summer goes, of course. Seems irrelevant to the point I was making though, simply retaining guys so you don't lose them for nothing doesn't actually lock you into them unless you are dumb enough to give them a no trade clause like Beal got (and even he got moved, if for peanuts).

[The Claw Reborn]

No, you absolutely take into account performance and fit, and use those to determine a percentage of the cap that a player is worth. And then depending on what the cap dollar amount is, that works out to a player dollar amount.

I'm saying you need to evaluate in the context of the cap. Anything else is insane, or you'd still be offering LeBron James 14M starting salary like the Heat did to put together their big three.

Strawman, how convenient for you to point out James as an example to validate your point.

VanVleet is nowhere a $30 million guy but I understand that there will be morons who will overpay him

[Yuri Gagarin]

Pretty good! So far all the talent has been retained. We'll see how this summer goes, of course. Seems irrelevant to the point I was making though, simply retaining guys so you don't lose them for nothing doesn't actually lock you into them unless you are dumb enough to give them a no trade clause like Beal got (and even he got moved, if for peanuts).

It locks you in if no one is interested - like freds last contract.

[The Claw Reborn]

Hawks get: Pascal Siakam

Raptors get: Dejounte Murray, John Collins, Saddiq Bey, 2023 and 2024 first round picks


Solves many of the team's issues.

Found it.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Found it.

only issue I have is dejonte took a bit of a step back defensively this year

[The Claw Reborn]

only issue I have is dejonte took a bit of a step back defensively this year

Masai can wait til deadline, no rush to trade Pascal
I still would like to see him alongside Scottie without VanVleet taking their shots or running around for 20 seconds in the shot clock then pass them a timebomb with three seconds left.

However if there is a king ransom available like that one above, I would go for it. Not sure if Masai is willing to pay him the max.

My pipe dream for a Pascal trade is a Maxey or SGA return