Everything Pascal Siakam

[Primer]

I hear what you're saying but I wonder how this impact relationships between the franchise and the players, players union and agents. You see how much power players have over teams even when they're under contracts. There's only like 400 players in the entire league so they aren't a commodity you can treat like a commodity, if that make sense?

Might be a bad example because there isn't any proof of it, but I look at a team like Dallas that didn't want to pay their guys after they won the championship and let key guys go. Despite freeing up cap space to make runs at free agents in the following years they were never able to sign the big free agents. Not saying they were black balled by players and agents, but it seemed like it.

Who did Dallas miss out on?

I don't think there is any evidence that agents / players take revenge on teams who don't choose player loyalty over doing what's best for their team.

There is only 450 players, but there is only 30 teams. Players and agents can't afford to blackball anyone. The premise is silly to me.

[golden]

Pascal is about to bone this franchise by refusing to extend with other teams.

About to? Pascal already did that to scuttle any potential deals at the draft. Raps are his best opportunity to make all-NBA and get the super max. It’s another bet-on-yourself business decision, like Fred.

[Primer]

About to? Pascal already did that to scuttle any potential deals at the draft. Raps are his best opportunity to make all-NBA and get the super max. It’s another bet-on-yourself business decision, like Fred.

That's why if he won't sign the extension now we need to trade him. We will get a lot more now than we would in a sign and trade next offseason, if we could even pull one off. Watch the Spurs swoop in with a max deal and Pascal leaves for nothing.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah just get the best players. If we got Okongwu and he beats our Precious, tough shit. Get better.

I like okonguwu better than precious but i dont trust masai to make the next move after... he hasn't shown that he has a tendency to make quick moves

[TrueTorontoFan]

I picture Dejounte playing a similar role to Jamal Murray. Offense runs through Jokic, but Jamal is the guy bringing the ball up, making a play when action breaks down, playing a two man game with Jokic etc.

he doesn't operate in pick and role like that though and his shooting isn't that level from beyond the arc

[Maury]

he doesn't operate in pick and role like that though and his shooting isn't that level from beyond the arc

I’d push back on the pick and role part. He and Jak ran a good pnr in San Antonio and he’s generally an upper tier passer in the league.

[Kagemusha]

he doesn't operate in pick and role like that though and his shooting isn't that level from beyond the arc

If you don't like the ultimate duo comp of Jokic-Murray, then maybe Sabonis-Fox will do.

[TrueTorontoFan]

If you don't like the ultimate duo comp of Jokic-Murray, then maybe Sabonis-Fox will do.

fox and sabonis long term wont work because sabonis once he gets beyond a certain distance away isn't aggressive enough with his shots because he cant shoot when the right move appears go for it... but the wrong move is not a good idea you want to make a move for the sake of making a move.. i want to be more prudent

[Kagemusha]

fox and sabonis long term wont work because sabonis once he gets beyond a certain distance away isn't aggressive enough with his shots because he cant shoot when the right move appears go for it... but the wrong move is not a good idea you want to make a move for the sake of making a move.. i want to be more prudent

Should work for us coz Scottie has shown that he can be better than Sabonis, right?
It's not just about making a move the sake of making a move, it's more about how that move works better.
It's more about how Murray complements Scottie.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Should work for us coz Scottie has shown that he can be better than Sabonis, right?
It's not just about making a move the sake of making a move, it's more about how that move works better.
It's more about how Murray complements Scottie.

all respect to barnes but you think barnes has shown us more than sabonis at this point in his career... we don't even know what barnes is at this point he could be a point guard he could be a small forward no one knows... heck he may be one of the only unknowns in his draft class. he could be really amazing he could be an mvp... we literally dont know... so no he isn't better than sabonis. Sabonis in and around the hoop is actually a much better rebounder or finisher.


given murray would take away shots and opportunity away from OG since.. no offence to og he is a better offensive weapon... then how does that impact that decision? Or is it just you would rather overpay for OG because even if its an overpay the dollar amount will likely be less than a siakam max even if its close to say jeremi grant?



I also don't know if he compliments barnes more as a player. His play making isn't as good as siakam. His shooting from deep is marginally better... he needs the ball in his hands yes he is more dynamic than fred zero question there but ultimately I do not see him fitting oh so well especially if you are losing siakam.

For Barnes and Siakam to work or really Barnes and most... Barnes is the one who needs to shoot better. Does that mean I am hating on barnes? no. I think he is incredible but I think before we lose our best player for unknowns or a guy who may have problems with being a headcase ... yeah i'd prefer to know what we have in barnes.. perhaps wait until the following year or even january when Pascal is on an extension and worth more. But let barnes prove it first.

[Kagemusha]

all respect to barnes but you think barnes has shown us more than sabonis at this point in his career... we don't even know what barnes is at this point he could be a point guard he could be a small forward no one knows... heck he may be one of the only unknowns in his draft class. he could be really amazing he could be an mvp... we literally dont know... so no he isn't better than sabonis. Sabonis in and around the hoop is actually a much better rebounder or finisher.


given murray would take away shots and opportunity away from OG since.. no offence to og he is a better offensive weapon... then how does that impact that decision? Or is it just you would rather overpay for OG because even if its an overpay the dollar amount will likely be less than a siakam max even if its close to say jeremi grant?



I also don't know if he compliments barnes more as a player. His play making isn't as good as siakam. His shooting from deep is marginally better... he needs the ball in his hands yes he is more dynamic than fred zero question there but ultimately I do not see him fitting oh so well especially if you are losing siakam.

For Barnes and Siakam to work or really Barnes and most... Barnes is the one who needs to shoot better. Does that mean I am hating on barnes? no. I think he is incredible but I think before we lose our best player for unknowns or a guy who may have problems with being a headcase ... yeah i'd prefer to know what we have in barnes.. perhaps wait until the following year or even january when Pascal is on an extension and worth more. But let barnes prove it first.

Lol. Why are you comparing a prime player to a 3 yr player.
I said Scottie has shown that he CAN be better.

I know you want to keep Pascal but that is almost moot now as we are actively shopping him, which is why we are discussing all these ideas.

Murray compliments Scottie as I already stated with the Sabontis-Fox comp.

[Primer]

all respect to barnes but you think barnes has shown us more than sabonis at this point in his career... we don't even know what barnes is at this point he could be a point guard he could be a small forward no one knows... heck he may be one of the only unknowns in his draft class. he could be really amazing he could be an mvp... we literally dont know... so no he isn't better than sabonis. Sabonis in and around the hoop is actually a much better rebounder or finisher.


given murray would take away shots and opportunity away from OG since.. no offence to og he is a better offensive weapon... then how does that impact that decision? Or is it just you would rather overpay for OG because even if its an overpay the dollar amount will likely be less than a siakam max even if its close to say jeremi grant?



I also don't know if he compliments barnes more as a player. His play making isn't as good as siakam. His shooting from deep is marginally better... he needs the ball in his hands yes he is more dynamic than fred zero question there but ultimately I do not see him fitting oh so well especially if you are losing siakam.

For Barnes and Siakam to work or really Barnes and most... Barnes is the one who needs to shoot better. Does that mean I am hating on barnes? no. I think he is incredible but I think before we lose our best player for unknowns or a guy who may have problems with being a headcase ... yeah i'd prefer to know what we have in barnes.. perhaps wait until the following year or even january when Pascal is on an extension and worth more. But let barnes prove it first.

I see the Barnes- Siakam situation the same as the Jokic - Nurkic situation.

They both play the same position and occupy the same space. It's a very awkward fit together. Jokic did not become a superstar until they dealt away Nurkic so that Jokic could be the center and not playing next to another center.

We need to move Pascal or Barnes will never have a chance to blossom.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I see the Barnes- Siakam situation the same as the Jokic - Nurkic situation.

They both play the same position and occupy the same space. It's a very awkward fit together. Jokic did not become a superstar until they dealt away Nurkic so that Jokic could be the center and not playing next to another center.

We need to move Pascal or Barnes will never have a chance to blossom.

perhaps but i dont think we need to move him for the suggested offers i'm hearing either dejonte or hunter and then maybe jalen johnson max. ... seems like a trash return. If it was for scoot that is one thing... I see it closer to J and J situation on the celtics... you could argue they play the same position but they make it work. Both dudes in toronto actually have better playmaking skills. I dont see why we can't extend (assuming he wants to extend) and see how it plays out this year. With Fred being gone there is a lot of shots that have just come available and a ton of possessions

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lol. Why are you comparing a prime player to a 3 yr player.
I said Scottie has shown that he CAN be better.

I know you want to keep Pascal but that is almost moot now as we are actively shopping him, which is why we are discussing all these ideas.

Murray compliments Scottie as I already stated with the Sabontis-Fox comp.

you made the comparison then asked me.

My point originally was that eventually they will have to trade sabonis ... that was clear if you watched the playoffs and saw that without his ability to stretch the floor sabonis holds back fox.... who operates in the midrange.. the difference here if you want to even attempt to make that comparison is Barnes being the younger talent is the one who can't shoot. Perhaps if he shot better this year and shows himself more than marginal gains then I would be more comfortable trading the best player.


With Vanvleet I hear you and was with you and was there pretty early on. I would say I started complaining around November two seasons ago.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I’d push back on the pick and role part. He and Jak ran a good pnr in San Antonio and he’s generally an upper tier passer in the league.

right but do you wanna run pick and roll with jak or are you trying to run a different offence with barnes. Barnes and Jak pick and roll would struggle unless jak hits in the mid range pulling defenders out and Barnes regains his midrange level he hit efficiency wise in his first year with at minimum a 2nd year level of volume or more. Not to mention ideally he would have to be a better shooter at range.

I dont wanna watch dejonte play pick and roll with jak similar to FVV like its a damn security blanket for the dude again because then we will again be in the same situation of saying what the hell does this kid have.

If we didn't have Jak its a completely different story because Barnes could make it work and was playing better in the screening role last year and was more engaged and was making connective passes out of that but when we got Jak we went away from that.


So who do you want intiating the offence ... what kind of offence do you want. I want ball movement and lots of high screens running pick and role to get barnes and Siakam down hill and I would stagger them after the initial starting unit gets some run. That way you have a bit of a fail safe. Also for Barnes him and siakam can work in side pick and roll if there are shooters surrounding them in smaller ball line ups with gradey, otto, gtj, and POTENTIALLY mcdaniels.