Everything 2018 Off Season

[Nilanka]

had a hunch that we weren't offering derozan....yet.... (mentioned earlier) and according to that report it looks like we didn't.

ftfy

[Shaolin Fantastic]

ftfy

I added more to my post after you quoted it btw, was in the middle of an edit.

But yeah we could still change our offer. I just think giving up DeMar and OG is really the kind of trade that is going kill us a lot later. Trading your two highest value assets and then watching the return for them walk in a season would be disastrous.

[DanH]

I strongly suspect the Raptors HAVE offered DeMar, and where their offer is falling short is the high upside prospects and picks. I imagine the reason other teams are reportedly falling back a bit is because the Raptors are willing to part with an all star (while other teams are not), but the deal isn't done yet because Masai doesn't want to part with OG.

[Scraptor]

I added more to my post after you quoted it btw, was in the middle of an edit.

But yeah we could still change our offer. I just think giving up DeMar and OG is really the kind of trade that is going kill us a lot later. Trading your two highest value assets and then watching the return for them walk in a season would be disastrous.

Masai is big into continuity, is fairly risk-averse, and cares a great deal about optics. I don't think he's going to offer "Mr I Am Toronto" if there's the slightest possibility that Kawhi walks, and that possibility is more than slight. The casual fanbase is not as attached to OG.

The longer the summer goes on, the less heat he faces too, so the urgency to consummate a deal fades away. But I think there is an opportunity here that is extremely rare, and I would be very disappointed if we have a repeat of the Pelicans-Cousins situation where some other party just swoops in and acquires Kawhi for pennies on the dollar.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

The report would indicate that the offer didn't include DeRozan and teams aren't offering all-stars in their packages:

However, with organizations fearing Leonard will bolt to the Los Angeles Lakers at the conclusion of this coming season, packages from around the league have lacked All-Star-level players heading San Antonio's way.

Scraptor makes a good point as well about the optics. I'd add that not only will it look bad trading the face of the franchise who was loyal for almost a decade only to see Kawhi walk, it'll look bad JUST trading the face of the franchise, especially to Kawhi when trying to re-sign him. Again we can say relationships don't matter in the league but they do, but it's gonna be really hard to say to Kawhi at the end of the season, "Stay here and build something with us" when we tossed aside a guy who stayed here and built his whole career.

I'd trade DeRozan for him but not with OG included, but I can see why Masai wouldn't include him, instead opting for a package centered around Anunoby and probably Valanciunas.

[Barolt]

I strongly suspect the Raptors HAVE offered DeMar, and where their offer is falling short is the high upside prospects and picks. I imagine the reason other teams are reportedly falling back a bit is because the Raptors are willing to part with an all star (while other teams are not), but the deal isn't done yet because Masai doesn't want to part with OG.

This is pretty much right in line with my thinking too. If you listen to the things being said by people like Lowe, Shelburne and Windhorst, they all clearly know more than they're letting on and think this is serious.

[jimmie]

I strongly suspect the Raptors HAVE offered DeMar, and where their offer is falling short is the high upside prospects and picks. I imagine the reason other teams are reportedly falling back a bit is because the Raptors are willing to part with an all star (while other teams are not), but the deal isn't done yet because Masai doesn't want to part with OG.

But that makes no sense. Why would OG be the sticking point? If SAS have been offered DD and desire him, and if you believe Leonard can be convinced to stay in Toronto, why wouldn’t you deal OG as well?

What makes you believe so strongly that Ujiri has offered any of his star players when it sounds like no one else has?

[KeonClark]

But that makes no sense. Why would OG be the sticking point? If SAS have been offered DD and desire him, and if you believe Leonard can be convinced to stay in Toronto, why wouldn’t you deal OG as well?

What makes you believe so strongly that Ujiri has offered any of his star players when it sounds like no one else has?

Everyone here, including DanH and Barolt, are letting their biases dictate their notions. Some people here really want Derozan gone. Some people would rather it be JV. Some people would throw everything including the kitchen sink to get Kawhi. Some want 0 parts of him.

And all of these people, coming at it from each direction, are letting their bias and preference take over when they indicate what they "think" is happening. Cause nobody knows.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

But that makes no sense. Why would OG be the sticking point? If SAS have been offered DD and desire him, and if you believe Leonard can be convinced to stay in Toronto, why wouldn’t you deal OG as well?

What makes you believe so strongly that Ujiri has offered any of his star players when it sounds like no one else has?

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

[Primer]

But that makes no sense. Why would OG be the sticking point? If SAS have been offered DD and desire him, and if you believe Leonard can be convinced to stay in Toronto, why wouldn’t you deal OG as well?

What makes you believe so strongly that Ujiri has offered any of his star players when it sounds like no one else has?

You answered your own question. We wouldn't deal OG as well because it's more likely than not a 1 year deal. Hence the sticking point. If we aren't even allowed to talk to Kawhi how the fuck would we have assurances he'll stay beyond a season, or at least consider it.

Why I'm almost positive we've offered DD is because Windhorst and Lowe think we did, and they're by far the best sources anyone has posted so far.

[jimmie]

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

I’m still on the side of running it back, but I could see the logic of a move like JV+. I think Ujiri would have enough faith in his scouting results to date to think he could fill out a decent bench to play behind what would be the best starting lineup in the East. I still personally see too much of a flight risk to give up even JV, but maybe I’m more risk averse than Ujiri.

[Barolt]

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

The question Lowe asked Windhorst is what would Toronto have to offer to get Kawhi if Windhorst was San Antonio, and he replied with "OG has to be in the deal."

Also, both Windhorst and Lowe seemed to assume DeMar was in the trade. Why did you gloss over that part and fixate on the OG part?

[rebelrouser89]

Everyone here, including DanH and Barolt, are letting their biases dictate their notions. Some people here really want Derozan gone. Some people would rather it be JV. Some people would throw everything including the kitchen sink to get Kawhi. Some want 0 parts of him.

And all of these people, coming at it from each direction, are letting their bias and preference take over when they indicate what they "think" is happening. Cause nobody knows.

Exactly.

[Primer]

That's what I'm wondering, because all the reports so far seem to conflict with that idea.

It also doesn't really fit Masai's M.O. as Scraptor outlined.

I actually think it's more likely Masai just cashes in JV and almost all his prospect chips in the deal instead. Windhorst also seems to be the most connected here and said OG has to be in the deal when Lowe proposed a DeMar-centered one.

Key being they both had DD as the centerpiece of a trade. Literally zero media members have suggested anything without DD. That's just wishful thinking from the DD faithful.

[jimmie]

You answered your own question. We wouldn't deal OG as well because it's more likely than not a 1 year deal. Hence the sticking point. If we aren't even allowed to talk to Kawhi how the fuck would we have assurances he'll stay beyond a season, or at least consider it.

Why I'm almost positive we've offered DD is because Windhorst and Lowe think we did, and they're by far the best sources anyone has posted so far.

Those guys never said we offered DD, I don’t think. They simply offered what they think would get it done.

Again, if it’s a rental, there is zero reason to do anything at all.