2011 Draft Rumors & Discussion

[Tim W.]

Trade Calderon & Amir to POR for Rudy Fernandez & Greg Oden; draft Brandon Knight or one of the euro centers; sign Nazr Mohammed as a backup C.

Bayless/Knight
Rudy F/Barbosa
DeRozan/Johnson
Bargnani/Davis
Oden/Nazr

Ugh! No thanks.

[Maleko]

Trade Calderon & Amir to POR for Rudy Fernandez & Greg Oden; draft Brandon Knight or one of the euro centers; sign Nazr Mohammed as a backup C.

Bayless/Knight
Rudy F/Barbosa
DeRozan/Johnson
Bargnani/Davis
Oden/Nazr

Terrible team. First off if Oden has any chance to play, Portland will keep him. Derozan playing out of position kills a lot of his advantage, Knight is a wasted pick, and this team can't play defense.

[SCass]

Terrible team. First off if Oden has any chance to play, Portland will keep him. Derozan playing out of position kills a lot of his advantage, Knight is a wasted pick, and this team can't play defense.

While I don't see this squad winning a championship next year, I think these moves would address a lot of our offseason priorities without completely blowing the team up (as most of the posted scenarios seem to suggest). I don't see it as terrible -- I see it as realistic, and potentially really good.

Portland already has Camby and probably doesn't want to pay for Oden-potential next season (they want to make a playoff run and would be afraid to pay him in light of the lockout).

DeRozan would probably spend most of his time at SG anyways, but we need more options for outside shooting at that position. Plus, I think he would be able to expose a lot of SFs offensively and, since he plans to bulk up and get better defensively this offseason, should be able to hold his own again SFs.

Knight is the perfect compliment for Bayless at this point; we could give Bayless a chance to start while grooming Knight for the future.

And last, with a lineup of Bayless/DeRozan/Johnson/Davis/Oden, I think that lineup has the potential to be incredible defensively. Great size, athleticism, speed and rebounding. Add in Bargnani for offense and with a good defensive supporting cast, I would actually really like this team's potential.

[blackjitsu]

Where to even begin? I love how one person points out several "success stories" (i.e. Ford/Nelson) and then someone else comes in and says "if the worst he becomes is TJ Ford or Jameer." Really now? I didn't know Ford/Nelson were the worst Walker could possibly be. Hell, count me on the bandwagon if that's the case.

And are we really counting # of playoffs as a measure of anything meaningful? So Ford's been in 3 playoffs (does the current one really count? He didn't even play more than 15 minutes total) in his 7 seasons. Bargnani's been in 2 himself in his five seasons. I'm sure there are plenty of scrubs who've been in the playoffs even more. What does this really mean? And uh, are we REALLY comparing Kemba to Nash and AI now? How does that really help your point, comparing him to some of the best players ever? BTW, Nash isn't an undersized PG. Just saying.

Not really arguing against Kemba as much as just pointing out all the non sequiturs.

Sigh.

If you read my whole post you would see that MY choice of a non-post player would be Kahwi. All I'm saying is that the prototype of player that Kemba is has been successful in the past in the league. I find it ridiculous that people are saying his "flaw" is his size. He's not small. Spud is small, players his "size" (between 6ft and 6ft 3 inch, let's be honest most people in this range lie about their height) have succeeded in the league. In fact, some have thrived. Seriously, what is this guy's flaw? All I see is a guy who busted his butt and led a team to a National title after taking two years to figure out his game. This wasn't your classic UConn team. Other than Lamb exactly who was he supposed to pass to?

2. Yes, playoff appearances is definitely a way to judge a player. Fairly or not. Look at the players in this league (who are considered starters or leaders) and compare the ones who have regularly gone to the playoffs their first five to ten years versus those who have not. Over an extended period of time, looking at playoff appearances as a starter tells you a lot more than all-star appearances. Do I need to start listing the Jamal Magloire's of the world? Seriously? And Yes, for a time TJ was very good, injuries are his biggest hurdles. When he dragged Milwaukee to the playoffs, no one could deny the kid.

As far as me daring to mention AI and Nash. I am old enough to remember watching both play NCAA. The big thing broadcasters were concerned about with Nash then was speed and height. It sounds funny now but he went to Santa Clara and only got serious shine his last year there. As far as AI, I remember watching his first game at Georgetown, scoring a half-court buzzer shot to end the half, shooting threes from another planet - carrying a mediocre team on his back. Sound familiar?

Did I say he was these guys? Will ever be these guys? No. I said he fits a certain prototype. They are the best in that group, hence, their names are mentioned since his alleged "flaw" is fitting into a certain mold.

Did I not say the draft is a gamble? What do you think GMs are doing? They are looking at the range of players that closely mimic other players' skill set, size etc. Speaking to coaches, instructors, teachers, trainers and trying to figure out where in that range of potential, between the worst case scenario (Starbury's cousin) and the best (AI, Nash) in assessing the multi-million dollar gamble they are about to make. Everyone here is talking worst case about a guy who has shown signs of maturing, (leading a team, graduating in three years, listening to coaching,etc.,) that's bogus. Can someone tell me any injuries we should be worried about? How poor a team mate he is? Anything? If not let's look at the player to figure out where within the range of similar players he lies. That's all I'm saying.

[Maleko]

While I don't see this squad winning a championship next year, I think these moves would address a lot of our offseason priorities without completely blowing the team up (as most of the posted scenarios seem to suggest). I don't see it as terrible -- I see it as realistic, and potentially really good

.

Portland already has Camby and probably doesn't want to pay for Oden-potential next season (they want to make a playoff run and would be afraid to pay him in light of the lockout).

Portland has already stated they will extend the QO and match offers to keep him as long as he is progressing in his rehab. If they don't do the offer, big red-flag. Camby is 38 and not a future plan. They won't give up on their future for one year.

DeRozan would probably spend most of his time at SG anyways, but we need more options for outside shooting at that position. Plus, I think he would be able to expose a lot of SFs offensively and, since he plans to bulk up and get better defensively this offseason, should be able to hold his own again SFs.

Perhaps and I hope so. Actually I believe he will be better and stronger. That said he has a size advantage over SG's not so with SF's even when he bulks up.

Knight is the perfect compliment for Bayless at this point; we could give Bayless a chance to start while grooming Knight for the future.

Bayless is young, and I agree I would give him the chance to start. But if he performs, why is Knight the future not Bayless? They are similar styles right now, so a better choice would be getting a later pick and using it on Darius Morris.

And last, with a lineup of Bayless/DeRozan/Johnson/Davis/Oden, I think that lineup has the potential to be incredible defensively. Great size, athleticism, speed and rebounding. Add in Bargnani for offense and with a good defensive supporting cast, I would actually really like this team's potential.

That lineup would be good at defense, and be athletic (ex. Oden) but that was not the starting lineup you had listed. Of course the bench would then be atrocious, but let's start here.
First off Oden won't play, with the reasoning I set out above if we get him he will be injured. That leaves Nazr, who is not good defensively.
As for the bench of Knight, Fernandez, Kleiza, Bargnani and Mohammed, Knight has potential at D, and Fernandez. The rest are cannon fodder for the other team on D. Offensively not one of them would be in the paint, so their shooting % better be damn good.

I can see potential in some parts of this lineup, but the same holes at C, concerns at SF, and questionable D with little upgrade at 3pt shooting. Fernandez is an upgrade. The rest of the changes are huge question marks.

[Tim W.]

While I don't see this squad winning a championship next year, I think these moves would address a lot of our offseason priorities without completely blowing the team up (as most of the posted scenarios seem to suggest). I don't see it as terrible -- I see it as realistic, and potentially really good.

Portland already has Camby and probably doesn't want to pay for Oden-potential next season (they want to make a playoff run and would be afraid to pay him in light of the lockout).

DeRozan would probably spend most of his time at SG anyways, but we need more options for outside shooting at that position. Plus, I think he would be able to expose a lot of SFs offensively and, since he plans to bulk up and get better defensively this offseason, should be able to hold his own again SFs.

Knight is the perfect compliment for Bayless at this point; we could give Bayless a chance to start while grooming Knight for the future.

And last, with a lineup of Bayless/DeRozan/Johnson/Davis/Oden, I think that lineup has the potential to be incredible defensively. Great size, athleticism, speed and rebounding. Add in Bargnani for offense and with a good defensive supporting cast, I would actually really like this team's potential.

I think that team is mediocrity at it's most mediocre. Trading Amir instead of Bargnani is a bad idea. In fact trading Amir, who is one of the few Raptors that actually heklps your team win. And his contract makes him even more valuable. Oden is a massive risk, especially since you'd have to pay him more than the $10 million Portland is considering extending him for. Knight isn't a good compliment to Bayless because they are very similar players and I'm not convinced either can run a team. That team has no guaranteed All-Stars and I agree that they'd get killed defensively, unless you intend to play just the good defenders most of the time, which would mean Bargnani and Rudy would not see much floor time, and DeRozan if he doesn't improve.

[Maleko]

I think that team is mediocrity at it's most mediocre. Trading Amir instead of Bargnani is a bad idea. In fact trading Amir, who is one of the few Raptors that actually heklps your team win. And his contract makes him even more valuable. Oden is a massive risk, especially since you'd have to pay him more than the $10 million Portland is considering extending him for. Knight isn't a good compliment to Bayless because they are very similar players and I'm not convinced either can run a team. That team has no guaranteed All-Stars and I agree that they'd get killed defensively, unless you intend to play just the good defenders most of the time, which would mean Bargnani and Rudy would not see much floor time, and DeRozan if he doesn't improve.

Actually Fernandez plays decent D, but another point I didn't mention is his whining about being far away from home this year and wanting to be released from his contract so he can return to Spain. While he has backed off of this somewhat of late, it went on for quite a while and should be a concern. It could be we do this trade mentioned and neither player plays a lick of floor time.

Yikes.

[SCass]

I get your point that Portland, or any team, would want to have Oden if he is healthy. But Portland, or any other team, can't be assured Oden will remain healthy for a full season even if his rehab does go well. So from Portland's perspective, I think they would rather extend the QO and deal him for someone who can help them now.

In another scenario, how about dealing Bargs for Rudy F & Oden. I could see Portland (a solid defensive team) really valuing the floor spacing that Bargs would provide.

With Rudy and Caleron, Rubio would then say, "hello Spain!," and want to come to TO (which I'm sure could be arranged...ie. Bayless or the #5).

Calderon/Rubio
DeRozan/Rudy
Johnson/Kleiza/# 5 pick (Vesely?)
Davis/Amir
Oden/Nazr

Still question marks, but when you're rebuilding I think that you have to take some calculated risks on guys with potential.

I agree with what you said about DeRozan -- we shouldn't push him into the SF role, but I would definitely like to see him play more of that position this year.

One point I disagree on is that Mohammed is not good on defense. I'm pretty confident that he is regarded as being one of the better defensive centers in the league.

I realize that the lineup/trades I suggested won't necessarily lead to an instant playoff team, but in terms of the draft and trades, I would like to see the Raps making some high risk/reward plays (ie. Oden, Knight, Rubio...even Vesely) to try and get that 'star' which we will need if we want to get a championship.

[grindhouse]

Name Height without shoes Height with shoes Weight Wingspan Standing reach Body fact (pct) Hand length Hand width

Faried, Kenneth 6'6'' 6'7.5'' 224.6 7' 0" 9' 0"' 6.3 8.5 10.3

Ed Davis 6' 9" 6' 9.75" 227 7' 0" 9' 0"

[Tim W.]

I get your point that Portland, or any team, would want to have Oden if he is healthy. But Portland, or any other team, can't be assured Oden will remain healthy for a full season even if his rehab does go well. So from Portland's perspective, I think they would rather extend the QO and deal him for someone who can help them now.

In another scenario, how about dealing Bargs for Rudy F & Oden. I could see Portland (a solid defensive team) really valuing the floor spacing that Bargs would provide.

With Rudy and Caleron, Rubio would then say, "hello Spain!," and want to come to TO (which I'm sure could be arranged...ie. Bayless or the #5).

Calderon/Rubio
DeRozan/Rudy
Johnson/Kleiza/# 5 pick (Vesely?)
Davis/Amir
Oden/Nazr

Still question marks, but when you're rebuilding I think that you have to take some calculated risks on guys with potential.

I agree with what you said about DeRozan -- we shouldn't push him into the SF role, but I would definitely like to see him play more of that position this year.

One point I disagree on is that Mohammed is not good on defense. I'm pretty confident that he is regarded as being one of the better defensive centers in the league.

I realize that the lineup/trades I suggested won't necessarily lead to an instant playoff team, but in terms of the draft and trades, I would like to see the Raps making some high risk/reward plays (ie. Oden, Knight, Rubio...even Vesely) to try and get that 'star' which we will need if we want to get a championship.

I'd trade Bargnani for Oden and Fernandez. I don't know if Portland would. And you'd have to throw in other players to make the salaries work.

[Joey]

Sorry if this is long, I could just link it ... buut, nah.. great read about Kanter.
Who, according to this video, David Aldridge has going at #5 to Toronto
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...shc_phoner.nba

The strange saga of Enes Kanter is a long, complicated story with a long, disappointing wait, stretching from Kentucky to Turkey in a tangled tale of personal frustration and maybe professional setback.

Until Thursday.

It was then, in a private gym just west of downtown, Kanter resumed his NBA dream in earnest by participating in a group workout on the first day of basketball activity at the pre-Draft combine. He was easy to spot on the courts crowded with hopefuls. He was the guy who pretty much needed the jaws of life to get his smile through the door.

"Today was, like, so great," Kanter said later, surrounded by a couple dozen media members in a hotel ballroom. "I just tried to do my best. I just ran hard and I just tried to play hard. I hope I showed people something."

So great, and so unusual. For one thing, top prospects don't play basketball at this event when they're trying to convince front-office personnel to draft them as high as possible into a career of playing basketball. Agents prefer to wrap their clients in cellophane and protect a lottery standing by having the college star deign to join in only the mandatory physical. Kanter seemed to excitedly take part in the drills.

For another thing, he played at all. Kanter practiced last season with his sort-of teammates at Kentucky and more recently had been in workouts as draft prep. But there had been no organized games with people watching and, more than just watching, with something on the line. What took place Thursday and continues today is nothing close to a game.

But for the first time since the 2010 Nike Hoop Summit in Portland, Ore., when he had 34 points and 13 rebounds for the international squad facing an all-star team of college-bound U.S. players, his performance mattered.

There was no way to know at the time, after he finished the season at a prep school near Los Angeles and before he began the freshman year at Kentucky, that it would be the final Kanter appearance until Thursday. He expected to have a prominent role on the Wildcats -- who will also send Brandon Knight into the 2011 lottery as a one-and-done -- only to have Kanter ruled ineligible by the NCAA for receiving $33,000 in excessive benefits while playing for a Turkish club.

The final appeal was lost in January. He was done as a Wildcat without ever really getting started, the only consolation being that he remained on scholarship, continued to attend classes, and became a student assistant coach in a successful finesse of the rules that at least allowed him to practice with Kentucky.

"It was really hard because when I watched a game, I was crying because I can not help my team," Kanter said. "I couldn't help my team. I couldn't help coach Cal (John Calipari) or Kentucky. It was really hard for me."

He said he considers himself the great unknown of the Draft -- "Because no one has seen me play yet" -- but that's not really true. All the teams saw him play overseas and noted his combination of strength and skills at the Hoop Summit that this was clearly a potential star in the making. There is no mystery. There is just the uncertainty of how much rust settled in the missed season, and those concerns are easily dismissed with a series of quality workouts leading up to the June 23 selection.

NBA teams are unfazed by the excessive benefits. If anything, they are impressed he decided to stay in school rather than leaving immediately for Europe and playing there as a pro.

Kanter remains the same kind of prospect he was before being ruled ineligible: a 6-foot-11, 260-pound physical, talented center/power forward who continues to track to the top of the Lottery. He could go as high as No. 3 to Utah, with the Jazz needing to line up an eventual replacement for Mehmet Okur and general manager Kevin O'Connor a firm believer in the belief of never having too many big men. Kanter with Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors and Okur (heading into a contract year) is not a great stretch, just as Kanter with any of the next several teams in line is possible.

So, yes, he hoped he shows people something the two days here before beginning the North American tour of visiting several teams for individual workouts.

But, no, he didn't need to convince anyone.

Teams know him well enough that only a serious setback in conditioning or performance the next month will cost Kanter more than five or seven slots.

That was special to get on the court Thursday, though. It was so great.

You can tell he really loves the game. And REALLY has passion for the game.. unlike someone... *cough*Bargs*cough*

And in the video, note that they refer to Kanter as a Big Brute Center, who can play Power Forward. Dig it.

[ceez]

im no bargs apologist but to say he doesn't love the game is wrong. he just doesn't love defense.

[Raptorsss]

im no bargs apologist but to say he doesn't love the game is wrong. he just doesn't love defense.

No, he doesn't understand it. He has a one track scoring mentality. How many assists does the dude have?

-----------------

Tristan Thompson, what would your feelings be if the Raptors drafted the home town kid at the 5 spot? He's projected to be the first college front court player drafted, ahead of Faried and Biyombo.

First, his skill set is pretty redundant for what the Raptors already have at the four and for the time being is undersized for the 5 spot. But if drafting on talent instead of need he has probably one of the highest ceilings in the draft. At worst he can be like Cole Aldrich and develop in the D-league before getting serious minutes in the NBA.

[Raptors_]

Where is Ford now? Not saying this is Kemba's fate, but it's funny you would compare him to someone who only played decently for the Raptors for 1.5 seasons and is now the 3rd string PG behind Price, a very late second round pick. Not a very good comparison, really.

And simply naming players who have succeeded means very little. Millsap has been a very successful undersized PF, but that doesn't mean there's no reason for concern. Heck, I'd like to see the same optimism re: non-American players. Lemme give it a try. Nowitzki, Parker, Batum, et cetera -- don't give me that "he's a Euro" BS. Have I convinced you all to stop hating on European players?

damon stoudamire? he was rookie of the year. I think thats a good comparison.

[Raptors_]

Where to even begin? I love how one person points out several "success stories" (i.e. Ford/Nelson) and then someone else comes in and says "if the worst he becomes is TJ Ford or Jameer." Really now? I didn't know Ford/Nelson were the worst Walker could possibly be. Hell, count me on the bandwagon if that's the case.

And are we really counting # of playoffs as a measure of anything meaningful? So Ford's been in 3 playoffs (does the current one really count? He didn't even play more than 15 minutes total) in his 7 seasons. Bargnani's been in 2 himself in his five seasons. I'm sure there are plenty of scrubs who've been in the playoffs even more. What does this really mean? And uh, are we REALLY comparing Kemba to Nash and AI now? How does that really help your point, comparing him to some of the best players ever? BTW, Nash isn't an undersized PG. Just saying.

Not really arguing against Kemba as much as just pointing out all the non sequiturs.

Stop drinking the hatorade and start drinking the kool aid bro.