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jeff_hostetler wrote: View PostThe MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
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He'll take an 8 million dollar paycut because of his attitude? You know how hard it is to find a decent center, let alone a decent center who doesn't sit out half a season due to injury? It's not because Bargnani is awesome that people were wondering whether he might be an all-star.
8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.Last edited by jeff_hostetler; Wed Apr 20, 2011, 12:20 PM.
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jeff_hostetler wrote: View PostThe MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.
Note: Darko got $4.5/yr. last summer. Darko is not half the player that Sam is. Amir is only making MLE range money and I think Sam is not better than Amir at this point.
One more thing. No one asked the right question yet about this. Who? Who pays that? Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
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Apollo wrote: View PostPay days due to "potential" are in his rear view mirror now. $6M/yr is unreasonable under the current CBA? What about if there's a hard cap?
Apollo wrote: View PostHow can you even make that claim given we don't know the cap number or the type of cap? Are you suggesting he's worth that solely under the current system that's about to expire or is he worth it no matter what?
Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"
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jeff_hostetler wrote: View PostThis isn't a payment due to potential. This is a payment due to proven talent: defensive anchor C who can rebound and block shots, who doesn't get injured and if given starters minutes will average a double-double. A 29 year old C who does not rely on athleticism still has plenty of years of basketball left. 6m isn't unreasonable, I just think he could probably get more.
Why do they pay that? The idea of paying 8.5-9m was based on a S&T for Bargnani, who makes that much. It was to match salary for the trade, and was just an idea. I obviously have no idea what the new cap will look like, so am just going off of current salaries. To acquiesce, there's no reason the salary couldn't decline from season to season, for example, 8.5m, 8m, 7m. Something like that.
Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"
Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:
PG: Bayless, Calderon
SG: Derozan, Barbosa
SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
PF: ED, Amir
C: SDalembert, J Thompson
Bench: Alabi at this point.
Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
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Maleko wrote: View Post$6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players....
That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally....
Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.
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Maleko wrote: View Post$6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players.
Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:
PG: Bayless, Calderon
SG: Derozan, Barbosa
SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
PF: ED, Amir
C: SDalembert, J Thompson
Bench: Alabi at this point.
Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.
I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
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I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?
What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
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planetmars wrote: View PostI asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?
What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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Matt52 wrote: View PostDo you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.
Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.
I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
planetmars wrote: View PostI asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?
What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostDo you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.
Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.
I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
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jeff_hostetler wrote: View PostMan...you guys are talking as if Dalembert is an egomaniacal psycopath. Granted, like I said, I don't know the guy, but yeesh.
As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.
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