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Summer 2011: What our beloved Raptors should do. Concretely.

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  • #46
    charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Do you think that Kemba would really be a better option than Bayless?
    He's probably a better option because he has more of a point guard's game (despite having to be a scorer for UConn) and isn't a combo guard like Jerryd, but that shouldn't even be a consideration. I just think that Kemba will be the best player available if the Raps get the third pick and the team needs to pick the best player regardless of position. Who knows Bayless could even be shifted over to Barbosa's sixth man spot if they draft Walker.

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    • #47
      charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
      Do you think that Kemba would really be a better option than Bayless?
      They might not have a choice but to draft him if they're planning on taking the best player available, or I should say best "perceived" player available. When you have a top-five pick, you can't be trading for position and are forced to take market value over team fit. Kemba is more of a pass-first PG than Bayless, but Bayless is improving and made some strides this year. Tough question.

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      • #48
        ceez wrote: View Post
        keep in mind Blair is going to be out of the league in a couple years
        I second the "why?"

        It's clear that Blair is missing his ACLs, but the common belief in the medical community seems to be that as long as his legs remain strong, he should have absolutely no problem playing. He probably won't still be playing in his late 30s, but there's no reason to believe that he can't play for at least 10 years.

        There's a good article talking about it here...
        http://www.slate.com/id/2234460/
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        • #49
          Arsenalist wrote: View Post
          They might not have a choice but to draft him if they're planning on taking the best player available, or I should say best "perceived" player available. When you have a top-five pick, you can't be trading for position and are forced to take market value over team fit. Kemba is more of a pass-first PG than Bayless, but Bayless is improving and made some strides this year. Tough question.
          I'd be okay with the Raptors picking Walker, but at the 3rd-5th spot, it may not necessarily fall to the best player available, as there might be two or three that are pretty much even. In that case, I think you go with the player who fits your need the most. If it's a choice between Walker, Kanter and Jonas, and all are healthy and no one is really considered better than the other, I think Kanter fits the team's need more. Plus, it's a lot harder to acquire a good , all around big man than it is to acquire a good PG.
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          • #50
            However, there are some concerns regarding Kanter's knees.

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            • #51
              If the Raptors take Kemba with the third pick overall, I am officially rooting for a new team. I'm all for the best player available philosophy but it's definitely not Walker at number three.

              The Raptors should move Bargnani this summer if they can get something back that is even remotely fair value for him. We can argue all day on whether the amount of criticism and blame he's getting is justified, but the reality is that even his teammates are starting to take jabs at him in the media so it's clearly become something of an issue on the team. And if it isn't already, it almost certainly will be after it's beaten to death until the end of October. Detroit showed us this season that things can get pretty ugly if you've got an inexperienced team in a transitional stage when players on the team have turmoil in the locker room. I understand that the Pistons were a worst case scenario but I feel like it's a good idea just to get it over with as quickly as possible if Bargnani's not in the long term plans and all signs point to him not being there.

              The problem is that there's not going to be a huge market for him. Believe it or not, the other teams in the league aren't going to want a volume shooting center that doesn't rebound or play D any more than we do. But Bargnani does have his strong points (strong point really) and a team like Minnesota or Sacramento might feel like they have the right pieces in place to allow him to excel. What the Raps get back in return is probably a young prospect(or pick) and cap filler. The one thing the Raptors should avoid is taking back a player that is some other teams damaged goods.

              On the free agent front, the Raptors shouldn't be hanging out any long term deals unless it's someone that they're convinced will make this team better in the short term and can still be a big part of the long term as well. Specifically I'm talking about Marc Gasol. I know that the hypothetical "defensive center" we've heard so much about is priority A but that doesn't mean we have to throw a bunch of money at it this summer. I'm not convinced on going after Tyson Chandler considering the amount of money he's sure to ask for. He seems like a prime candidate to get his one last big pay day, show up to camp out of shape and then be a cap killer for the next five seasons.

              I think a much better idea is to sign a guy like Pryzbilla or Mohammed on a 1 or 2 year deal but only for a minimal amount of money. There's little risk because you get to maintain your cap flexibility for the future and you bring in a couple of vets that the young guys can learn from but you don't have to worry about them stunting their development. The term "band aid" is usually used in a negative way in sports but if done correctly and for the right amount of money, they can actually be quite useful.

              As far as the draft goes, I guess it really depends on where the Raptors end up selecting. It's a weak year and the number of potential all stars appears to be tiny. If the Raps get a shot at Irving or Williams it'd be a huge success for the team. The bad news about falling out of the top two is that you're left picking one of the international bigs in all likelihood, and they all have the potential to be flops. Plus it's not like our track record with foreign born centers is incredibly awful or anything!
              Last edited by Fully; Wed Apr 27, 2011, 05:22 PM.

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              • #52
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Keep in mind all of this is guesing until new CBA is done. I'm working under the premise a high $60's hardcap is in place

                I've been giving this some thought the last day or so before I answer - concretely - on the summer of 2011. Keep in mind, in my opinion, being a GM is like playing chess - good chess players see a few moves in advance, great chess players see the end game.

                ...

                Sweet dreams everyone. Story time is over.
                Respectfully, I'm not a fan of many of your ideas.

                First off, you know I disagree with your need to trade Calderon. He's only got 2 more years left on his contract, and then the Raptors are going to have to pay DeRozan, anyway, so I just look at his contract as a placeholder. He actually has a positive impact, which is rare on the Raptors, and he knows how to run an offense (rare among PGs in the league). I'm also not a fan of Flynn or Webster.

                I agree with drafting the best player available, but I couldn't care less whether he is NBA ready or not. Not if you have to take a player with a lower ceiling. I do like Kanter, though.

                I don't think the Raptors should be looking to try and grab a big free agent this summer. If Marc Gasol wants to come to Toronto, then fine, but otherwise you'd basically be signing a guy who is not ultimately what's best for the team in the long run.

                This draft is extremely weak, it seems, and I really wouldn't want to try and get any more picks. I mean, you might be looking at another 2006 draft where there were only a handful of players that even became rotation players, let alone made an impact.

                As for trading Bargnani, I think you know where I stand here. The longer you keep him the more his value goes down. It was a big mistake not trading him last summer, when his trade value was at it's highest. You can't compound that by holding onto him longer. There may still be a few GMs who think they can get something more out of Bargnani. The more you keep him, the fewer GMs see the potential in him.

                Now, as for trying to go after Howard, it's a nice idea, but I don't like how you go about it for a couple of reasons. The first is that putting Bargnani beside him is giving him the same problems he's experiencing now. I know there's a belief that a guy like Howard will be able to cover Bargnani's defensive issues, but all you're doing is putting more defensive pressure on him. And I'm also not convinced the talent around him is very good, quite frankly.
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                • #53
                  However difficult it will be, I think the best course of action is to keep it slow and steady. Nothing the Raptors can reasonably do this summer is going to turn this team around. Like it or not, I think the Raptors will need one more season in the lottery before they start making some noise.

                  Obviously a lot depends on where the Raptors draft and who's available, but at this point, Irving, Williams and Kanter are my top three and I'd be happy if the Raptors draft one of them.

                  WHile I'm not a fan of acquiring more draft picks in a weak draft, there are two options I think would work well. The first is if a team like Minnesota, Washington or New Jersey gets the top pick. They obviously don't need a PG, so might be willing to make a deal for the pick, maybe involving Bargnani (more on that later). While the draft isn't a strong one, if the Raptors can grab both Irving AND Kanter (assuming his knees check out), I think that's a home run. Now, I have no idea what it would take, besides Bargnani, to get the top pick (while keeping the third pick), but I would even be willing to give up a top 10 protected pick next year to do it.

                  Another option would be using the rest of the TPE exception to grab an extra pick like how Oklahoma used their cap space to move up. Take on an extra contract and grab a draft pick. They don't use any assets since the TPE would expire, anyway, and while they could end up with a bust, there really isn't much given up. I think anyone who thinks a 22 win team is going to do anything on the free agent market is kidding themselves.

                  Now, if the Raptors don't trade Bargnani for the top pick (or to move up), then trading him has to be your next order of business. As I stated earlier, his trade value peaked last summer and keeping him just means holding onto a devalued asset. It's not only pointless it's detrimental to the team. Trade him for a draft pick or a young prospect, and it doesn't need to be a center. Just get the best return for him whatever it may be.

                  I'd try and trade Barbosa, but depending on how his value is after he has surgery, it might be better to simply hold onto him until the trade deadline.

                  I'd re-sign Reggie for as little as possible, only because he's a good teammate and his energy can be infectious. If Weems can be had for cheap you may as well keep him, too. I think he's better than he showed after his injury and the Raptors need to fill out their roster, anyway.

                  If the Raptors are able to get Irving, then Bayless should be traded. I'd rather keep the veteran PG to mentor Irving and I think without a lot of playing time, Bayless might be a distraction.

                  And that's it. That's not going to probably get you back to the playoffs next year, but I think it's gets the team on the right track.
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                  • #54
                    1. we have to take more than 1 player in this draft if we are trying to do a real rebuild.
                    2. bargnani has to be shipped out
                    3. jay triano must not be back here as head coach

                    with that said we have a few options going forward that I personally will support. I don't intend to offend anyone but I very well may and I apologies in advance.

                    What I don't want to see with this team going forward is us taking Canadians because they are Canadian or international players because we are multi-cultural, we need to draft the best ballers available (there is a difference between ballers, "swag", and athletes). The general basketball knowledge here in this country is disgusting bad I don't care who takes offense to that its the truth. there are a few players in this draft who are ballers irving, kemba, terrence jones, reggie jackson, kenneth faried. Anyone that truely knows basketball knows that talent only takes you so far, there have been so many talented teams built in the nba that have failed its not funny. the detriot pistons/ larry brown championship team is how a team should be built. As larry brown said defense and rebounding is the way to build a successful team I don't care how many 60 win seasons dallas wins or how exciting the up and down basketball style is, championship teams win in the half court at both ends of the floor.

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                    • #55
                      grindhouse wrote: View Post
                      1. we have to take more than 1 player in this draft if we are trying to do a real rebuild.
                      2. bargnani has to be shipped out
                      3. jay triano must not be back here as head coach
                      I agree but next year's draft looks to be the draft to have multiple picks, not this year. There's no need to rush, we need to rebuild with quality, not quickly. I'd also wait to fire Triano.

                      There's little point replacing Jay if the team is destined to fail IF the team is still playing hard for him. Save some money until the team is ready to take the next step and then replace Jay.

                      And yeah, trade Bargs while you can still get more than a bag of balls for the kid.

                      I would fire Leo too, that would improve the broadcasts and make losing a bit more bearable.

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                      • #56
                        blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                        I would fire Leo too, that would improve the broadcasts and make losing a bit more bearable.
                        I almost fell of the chair after reading that.Nice one.
                        I have my own view of what should be done.
                        1.Trade Bargnani..it is top priority AND I admit that might be mistake but it is one that should be done.Then the guys currently on the team won't have their big excuse about defense.They will become better team with his absence because they will play together and by far bayless,derozan,amir...seem to like each other which is VERY important because this is a team game.So we have all read plenty of scenarios of what we get for Bargnani.
                        2.IF POSSIBLE replace Triano.He isn't good enough for head coach.Too many mistakes.He is a GREAT assistant but not good HC and by if possible I mean if someone better is the replacement.I've read about Adelman, van Gundi's or whatever - I mean someone like that ...
                        3.I see a major problem with out guards.Calderon is good,Bayless is good and shows a lot of promise.I don't want to lose anyone of them but if we get Irving or Walker we'll have to.If we have to I'd try to trade Calderon because we'll get a lot more from him than from Bayless.So that covers the draft as well.
                        4.In FA I would sign Gasol or Chandler or some othery C like that but only if the price is not too high.Also sign Thaddeus Young or Wilson Chandler.
                        5.Keep Colangelo.
                        6.Keep Barbosa as your sixth man.He actually WANTS to play for the raptors.He is great off the bench -that is your 6th man.Not cheap but he is all right.
                        7.Keep Weems at reasonable price.He still deserves to be on the team.Not starting definitely.And NOT playing the 3 spot (wtf Triano? )
                        8.Dorsey or Evans....I have to choose and I choose Dorsey because he is younger and he is a great 4th-5th big.
                        9.Keep Julian Wright - with another coach he can contribute a lot to the team.He isn't expensive and good defenders who pass the ball well are not so easy to come by.His jump shot makes me want to puke sometimes but I can live with that because of all the good things he brings:defense,energy,passing,desire.
                        That's it.It isn't much but we can't make some huge step.If that happens I can bet my life(ok,too much- my car ) that we will win 32+ games.Maybe if we are VERY lucky even 8-th or 7-th spot for playoffs and early 1st round exit.We can only improve after that.
                        How we look if we get lucky with the FAs(not included what we get from Bargs trade):
                        PG: Bayless / Irving ? Walker?
                        SG Derozan /Barbosa(can play the point sometimes)/Weems
                        SF:James Johnson / Young? Chandler?/J.Wright
                        PF: Davis/Amir
                        C:Gasol? Chandler?/Dorsey
                        Last edited by footarez; Thu Apr 28, 2011, 06:28 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          Respectfully, I'm not a fan of many of your ideas.

                          First off, you know I disagree with your need to trade Calderon. He's only got 2 more years left on his contract, and then the Raptors are going to have to pay DeRozan, anyway, so I just look at his contract as a placeholder. He actually has a positive impact, which is rare on the Raptors, and he knows how to run an offense (rare among PGs in the league). I'm also not a fan of Flynn or Webster.

                          I agree with drafting the best player available, but I couldn't care less whether he is NBA ready or not. Not if you have to take a player with a lower ceiling. I do like Kanter, though.

                          I don't think the Raptors should be looking to try and grab a big free agent this summer. If Marc Gasol wants to come to Toronto, then fine, but otherwise you'd basically be signing a guy who is not ultimately what's best for the team in the long run.

                          This draft is extremely weak, it seems, and I really wouldn't want to try and get any more picks. I mean, you might be looking at another 2006 draft where there were only a handful of players that even became rotation players, let alone made an impact.

                          As for trading Bargnani, I think you know where I stand here. The longer you keep him the more his value goes down. It was a big mistake not trading him last summer, when his trade value was at it's highest. You can't compound that by holding onto him longer. There may still be a few GMs who think they can get something more out of Bargnani. The more you keep him, the fewer GMs see the potential in him.

                          Now, as for trying to go after Howard, it's a nice idea, but I don't like how you go about it for a couple of reasons. The first is that putting Bargnani beside him is giving him the same problems he's experiencing now. I know there's a belief that a guy like Howard will be able to cover Bargnani's defensive issues, but all you're doing is putting more defensive pressure on him. And I'm also not convinced the talent around him is very good, quite frankly.
                          lol - great way to start a critique Tim: "Respectfully, I'm not a fan of many of your ideas." If I had not learned social etiquette to be one of your weaknesses, I might be offended.

                          As always, glad to see your opinions. I don't agree with all of them - such is life.

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                          • #58
                            TSN3; wrote:
                            79936Right now this team doesn't need a risky draft pick, they need a guy who's going to come in and be a difference-maker right away.
                            Why? This is a 22 win team without a lot of talent and no elite talent. I think what this team needs most are players with high ceilings, even if you have to wait a couple of years. The absolute last thing they should do is be in a huge hurry to compete. Just acquire the most talented young players you can and that will come. The trick is not how quickly you can compete, but how high you can go and how long you can sustain it.
                            Last edited by Tim W.; Thu Apr 28, 2011, 08:12 PM.
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                            • #59
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              lol - great way to start a critique Tim: "Respectfully, I'm not a fan of many of your ideas." If I had not learned social etiquette to be one of your weaknesses, I might be offended.

                              As always, glad to see your opinions. I don't agree with all of them - such is life.
                              I thought I WAS being nice. I did say "respectfully"!
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • #60
                                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                                Why? This is a 22 win team without a lot of talent and no elite talent. I think what this team needs most are players with high ceilings, even if you have to wait a couple of years. The absolute last thing they should do is be in a huge hurry to compete. Just acquire the most talented young players you can and that will come. The trick is not how quickly you can compete, but how high you can go and how long you can sustain it.
                                That's not quite what I meant. I just think that in this year's draft, the players who are going to make an impact right away just happen to also be the surest bets at being good or great players in the future.

                                While this team may be in the basement right now, they're definitely on the right track and BC's moves to acquire young talent have all been solid. Where he's stumbled in his time in TO is in the gambles that he's made (JO, Hedo) and I just think that he or the new GM has to keep making smart, high-percentage decisions.

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