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Three Team Blockbuster Trade Rumor
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Tim W. wrote: View PostAs mentioned, Gay is actually a very good rebounder, for SF, and he simply doesn't have the ball handling skills to play SG. I think he'd struggle keeping up with some of the quicker guards,. too.
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bboyskinnylegs wrote: View PostI agree individuals can't make great defensive teams (well, unless you're talking about a real anchor like Dwight...there's absolutely no way Orlando is as good defensively as they are without him).
But individuals can create huge problems defensively... and that's exactly what we see happen with Bargnani. You can cover for a guy that get's beat off the dribble (which happens frequently at the PG position, although a certain amount of resistance is needed) ... you CANNOT cover for someone that does not rotate to contest shots/help on D, or is not securing rebounds, etc. Bargnani is not the only reason we're a bad defensive team-- but as long as he is playing center 'protecting' the basket for us, our defense will never be much better than it is now... now worst in the league for the 2nd consecutive year.
I strongly disagree that Bargs was our best player in any way. All he did was put up 21points on below league average efficiency (53.3 TS%) and very high usage (28.1%). He averaged a 16.2 PER at C this year. His counterparts averaged a 21.1 PER playing against him.
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SCass wrote: View PostI compare Bargnani's defensive deficiencies to the Zack Randolph situation in Memphis. Randolph has been labeled a lazy, defensively inept power forward for year. Then, suddenly he goes to a real team and, poof!, he's one of the best power forwards in the league! Randolph did probably undergo an attitude adjustment, but hey, that does usually come with playing for a good, winning team. Again, I know that Bargnani is not a good defensive player, but put him on a good team, and I bet his offensive and defensive efficiency ratings go wayyy up.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostAs mentioned, Gay is actually a very good rebounder, for SF
2010-11
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.5 DRR=14.2 TRR=9.3
SF Avg : ORR=4.2 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.1
2009-10
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.2 DRR=13.1 TRR=8.7
SF Avg : ORR=4.7 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.3
2008-09
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.5 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.1
SF Avg : ORR=4.4 DRR=13.5 TRR=9.0
Based upon the basic data from the last three years, there is no evidence which indicates Rudy Gay is nothing but an average rebounder for a SF.
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Hugmenot wrote: View PostThis is the type of question that can be answered, at least in part, by checking the data on hoopsdata.com.
2010-11
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.5 DRR=14.2 TRR=9.3
SF Avg : ORR=4.2 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.1
2009-10
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.2 DRR=13.1 TRR=8.7
SF Avg : ORR=4.7 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.3
2008-09
Rudy Gay: ORR=4.5 DRR=13.9 TRR=9.1
SF Avg : ORR=4.4 DRR=13.5 TRR=9.0
Based upon the basic data from the last three years, there is no evidence which indicates Rudy Gay is nothing but an average rebounder for a SF.
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I believe that the Grizzlies are open to moving Gay, despite what Heisley has said publicly. They just invested $106 million to Conley & Randolph for the next four seasons and Gasol is likely to be paid another $50-60 million once July rolls around. Throw in Gay's max contact and they are basically at the cap line with those four players alone.
And I'm not foolish enough to think that Rudy Gay was holding back the Grizzlies through the first two-thirds of the season, but the fact that Memphis went on to play their best ball of the year once he went down should at least warm them up to the idea of moving him in a deal.
But I have a hard time believing that they can't find a better deal than this. Moving Gay, Mayo and Henry for Barbosa, Bargnani and George makes them older, less athletic and less talented. Plus they don't even save THAT much money since they're on the hook for Bargnani's $10 million annually until 2015. That doesn't make much sense to me. I feel like Gay could get them much more in return from a talent perspective, or at the very least more savings from a financial point of view.
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er1csh3n wrote: View Postbut based on your stats Rudy Gay is technically above average in 2008 and 2010....and last year our SF turk averaged like 4 boards
ORR=2.2
DRR=15.2
TRR=8.9
A terrible offensive rebounder, as is often the case for long range shooters, but a somewhat better than average defensive rebounder.
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owners are always going to deny stuff like this. talks can be delicate and then once the media grabs wind of it and it spreads you have everyone commenting on it and it can destroy talks.
like we experienced in that infamous charlotte-toronto non-trade.If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?
Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.
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Rumoured 3 team deal and what it means for Raptors
First off, the Raptors are not involved directly in this deal. Chris Broussard is reporting about a deal between Cleveland, Minnesota and Detroit...
The Cavaliers are in discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Detroit Pistons about a three-team trade that would give Cleveland the top two picks of next month's NBA draft.
The Cavaliers would use the picks to select Duke point guard Kyrie Irving and Arizona forward Derrick Williams, the sources said.
In the trade being discussed, Cleveland would absorb Detroit's Richard Hamilton into the $14.6 million trade exception it received in last summer's LeBron James sign-and-trade with Miami, while also receiving the Pistons' No. 8 pick. The Cavaliers would then send that pick, along with their fourth pick, to Minnesota for the Timberwolves' second pick.
Apparently Detroit is hesitant about this deal, because they get nothing back in return for Hamilton. Quite frankly, I don't even understand why they are in the deal at all.
Anyway, if Cleveland drafts 2nd and Minnesota 4th, that might change the outlook of the draft, a little. Williams would definitely go second, since that's why Cleveland is trading up. They'd end up with both Irving AND Williams. Not a bad draft.
Minnesota had no need for Williams with Beasley on the roster, but what exactly do they have need for? Obviously not a PG, so they won't take either Walker or Knight.
Apart from not taking a PG, who they want is anyone's guess. They're biggest team need is probably defense, especially with Rubio probably coming over, so I'm guessing they are looking at guys like Vesley, Leonard, Valanciunas, and Biyombo. Valanciunas is considered more of a project, and Minnesota apparently wants to win now, so I'd cross him off the list. Personally, I think the Wolves don't want another SF. They already have Beasley, Randolph, Webster and Wesley Johnson, all of whom can play SF.
I really don't think Kanter is someone they will want, since he duplicates a lot of what Kevin Love brings.
To me, I think they might be going after Biyombo. Scouts feel he can immediately make an impact on defense.
Thoughts?
They could go after Vesley or Leonard, who are SFs but in a very different way from Beasley. Leonard, especially,Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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The trade does not make much sense from Detroit's perspective. Maybe if the Pistons can get a player(s) in return: Sessions? Flynn? Hickson? Varejao? Or cheap young contracts such as Eyenga/Harris/Harangody/Samuels/Erden?
Of those, Hickson is the only one I'd see as unrealistic.
As for Minnesota, I am surprised at them ending up with 2 more lottery picks in it all. The last thing they need is more talent - especially unremarkable young talent. I would imagine for them it becomes more trade chips.
*It is all I can do to not mention Calderon here*
I'd be all for this from a Raptors perspective. Cleveland has been rumoured to be interested in Kanter so that would be one less team to worry about and one step closer to landing at 5.
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