Everything EuroBasket 2011

[stretch]

If you watched every important international and NBA game since the 70's, and played professionally for over 15 years, hats off to you or anyone else.

Sorry, that is irrelevant and beside the point. You have an opinion and so do I.

[Tim W.]

If you watched every important international and NBA game since the 70's, and played professionally for over 15 years, hats off to you or anyone else.

About Sam Mitchell, I'll have to disagree. That season was a combination of weak competition in the Atlantic Division and the Eastern Conference, as well as the signing of some very good veteran players, character guys, who didn't need coaching. The year before, under Mitchell, the Raptors were 27-55, and before that 33-49. I also think that with his actions he forced Babcock to give away Carter for nothing, which set back the team for many years. The way he treated Mo Pete in his last season was also terrible, Mo was one of the longest serving Raptors and he deserved much better. There is a reason why Mitchell didn't get another head coach position.

Jackson made a lot of average players look very good in Chicago, like Paxson, B.J. Armstrong, Longley, Kerr etc. The fact that he won 11 rings speaks for itself. Yes, he had superstars, but you have to know how to deal with players' personalities, which is the most difficult part of the coaching job. Sam Mitchell is terrible in that department. About Darko, he was (and still is) just an average player, it's not his fault that Detroit picked him that high. It was a shock in Europe as well when he was drafted because he has not played in any important games on a high level before that.

About Bargnani, I agree with you almost 100% - first and most of all, it is his fault that he plays the way he plays. No heart, no desire, no battle for the ball, jacking up jumpers and trying to score 20 pts on 25 shots each night, disappearing in crunch time, scoring in garbage time to inflate the numbers... What I'm saying is that maybe something could have been done earlier in his career if the Raptors had a better coach, because he had a potential. And actually you can teach someone to play defense, but it takes a lot of effort and some sacrifice on the offensive end, which Andrea is not willing to do.

Phil Jackson was/is a great coach. Sam Mitchell isn't in his league. But he's not a BAD coach. I consider a bad coach someone whose teams underperform, in relation to their talent. Mitchell never had much talent around him. I don't think he's a good coach, but a decent one. Someone who as little to no impact (positive or negative) on the team's win total.

As for Bargnani, you can teach someone defensive skills, but you can't teach them good defensive instincts, which Bargnani has never, ever had. And by the time you reach the NBA, you need to have some. Bargnani had good SCORING potential, but he had little to no potential in other areas.

[Joey]

Bo is not a J.J. Barea type of player, he is much more athletic than J.J. (not that I don't like J.J., quite the opposite) and no, he does not get out manned easily. Tim Hardaway is much closer comparison to McCalebb, although Bo attacks the rim more often than Tim did. Even though he is a small guy he is not afraid to go into the paint and take some punishment from the big boys, I watched him many, many times against very tough defense and he continues to impress me. Bo has a heart and desire to win that only a handful of players in NBA have, that's why I would always pick him on my team.

Check out the last 3 games he played for Macedonia on this Euro, wins over Croatia, Greece and Finland, see how many hard fouls he took, he was bleeding above the eye and still going to the rim. Players like him lift the spirit of the whole team, when your best player is diving for the ball, you can't be standing around and watching. On the other side, I'm sure you've seen it many times in Toronto, when people go around Andrea and score like at a practice game, the rest of the players are demoralized.

One of the biggest problems of NBA fans is that stats are the only thing they are concerned about. You actually have to watch the games, there are so many other elements that are more important than 22 points (on 6 of 19 shooting) for example. If the player you are guarding is walking around and scoring at will, I don't care if you end up with 30 points, people who understand the game know that you were awful.

I didn't mean that as a slight toward Bo.
I'm fully aware of what he brings to the table.
Barea is known to be quite fearless while driving to the basket amongst the big boys.
He is also known to provide to the emotional and spiritual spark, you speak of as well.

But again, what you fail to acknowledge is that players, and especially Point Guards in the NBA are MUCH longer, taller, bigger, stronger, than players in Europe. I'm aware thats a very large generalization, but for the most part, its true.

Desire to win will only get you so far. There was a reason he went undrafted.
At 6'-0", 180 lbs, he's just too small.
Even Ty Lawson has 15lbs on him and he's a couple inches shorter.

[jimmie]

Sorry, that is irrelevant and beside the point. You have an opinion and so do I.

It's actually quite relevant. Opinions have varying degrees of value based on the knowledge, experience, etc. of those who hold them.

If you think Sam Mitchell was a good head coach (or a "not bad" one), please explain how he's still not one somewhere else in the league. He's been passed over a number of times since he was fired in Toronto. I liked Sam, personality-wise, etc., but I would never say he was a good NBA coach.

[mcHAPPY]

It's actually quite relevant. Opinions have varying degrees of value based on the knowledge, experience, etc. of those who hold them.

If you think Sam Mitchell was a good head coach (or a "not bad" one), please explain how he's still not one somewhere else in the league. He's been passed over a number of times since he was fired in Toronto. I liked Sam, personality-wise, etc., but I would never say he was a good NBA coach.

I'm not a huge Sam Mitchell fan. With that said there is no teacher like experience. It was Sam's first experience as a head coach and I'm sure he has made changes and learned from his time as a head coach and since then with others. Did he do a great job? I don't think so. Did he do horrible? I don't think so. Did he do some good? I think so. Did he make mistakes? Absolutely - no one is perfect. Did he learn from those mistakes? Who knows until someone gives him another shot.

One could put Mitchell in the same situation or class as Casey. Casey has gone a looong time since his last head coaching gig and finally landed one in Toronto. To get back to where he is now, Casey had to put his time in as an assistant and earn a reputation as a top notch assistant (and winning a championship doesn't hurt either). Mitchell has to pay his dues to get another crack. Even guys like Lawrence Frank and Mike Woodson can't get by on their previous head coaching experience before getting another shot.

Like I said in the beginning I'm not a Sam Mitchell fan (or hater for that matter). I just thought I'd put my two cents in on the "please explain how he's still not one.....".

[jimmie]

Yeah, but other coaches keep getting the jobs that Mitchell gets passed over for. Somehow, hiring GMs believe these guys are "better coaches". Whether that's fair or not can be debated, but the fact remains: Mitchell has been unemployed since he left Toronto, despite vacancies being available during that time.

When he was here, Sam Mitchell was not a good coach. He stumbled into a winning record one year due to a lot of outside variables, and then the team stunk again, despite having a decent amount of talent. I'll repeat that I like the guy from a personality standpoint, and he gave great interview, but he wasn't what most would classify as a "good NBA coach". As a result, he hasn't had GMs beating down his door to offer him a head coach position. My guess is that his personality is exactly what made him a mediocre coach during his time here -- he was a my way or the highway guy, and that doesn't work consistently in the pros, unfortunately.

Will he prove to be a good coach one day, if given the opportunity (ie, has he learned from his mistakes)? Maybe, and I hope he gets a chance. But that doesn't change history. He wasn't good at player motivation or, more importantly, on-court strategy while he was here.

[Tim W.]

It's actually quite relevant. Opinions have varying degrees of value based on the knowledge, experience, etc. of those who hold them.

If you think Sam Mitchell was a good head coach (or a "not bad" one), please explain how he's still not one somewhere else in the league. He's been passed over a number of times since he was fired in Toronto. I liked Sam, personality-wise, etc., but I would never say he was a good NBA coach.

Sam Mitchell is currently an assistant coach for the Nets. And there are only 30 head coaching positions, in the NBA, and only a few openings every year. Quite frankly, there are a ton of coaches to choose from and Mitchell isn't going to make it on a lot of people's top ten list. It doesn't mean he's bad, but he's not a good coach either. And there's a big difference between a good coach and not a bad coach. I never said he was a good coach. There are literally hundreds of ex-NBA coaches who weren't bad, but who weren't particularly good, either. Mitchell has his strengths and his weaknesses, like anyone.

[GarbageTime]

I think judging the quality of a coach is extremely difficult. Guys like Phil Jackson have an amazing history, but he has also had some of the best players to ever play on his teams. He's also been smart about getting in and out of a team when the future looks less promising. If Phil Jackson had decided to coach the Raptors this past season would it have made a difference? Or Sacramento, or Minnesota etc etc.

Doc Rivers head was called for until KG and Ray showed up, and now he is regularily considered a top notch coach.

I don't think there was anything wrong with Sam as a coach... I think the Bargnani effect cost him his job in Toronto (ie. BC wanted the Raps to win games and have Bargnani play all at the same time... but that put Sam in between a rock and a hard place). And as Tim said when there are only 30 head coaching jobs available, of which 20+ are already accounted for in any season, and 100s of possible options available, to say that Sam isn't/wasn't a good coach because he hasn't got a job yet is simply not reasonable argument. Matt52 pointed out Casey who got passed overnumerous times... should Raps fans be worried he's not actually a good coach because he got passed over so many times?

A coach can have a positive or negative impact on a team... but I don't think you will often find they are difference makers. The players still need to do what they are expected to, they need to play up to or above their contracts, the GM has to give the coach the right players and make up etc etc.

[mcHAPPY]

Yeah, but other coaches keep getting the jobs that Mitchell gets passed over for. Somehow, hiring GMs believe these guys are "better coaches". Whether that's fair or not can be debated, but the fact remains: Mitchell has been unemployed since he left Toronto, despite vacancies being available during that time.

When he was here, Sam Mitchell was not a good coach. He stumbled into a winning record one year due to a lot of outside variables, and then the team stunk again, despite having a decent amount of talent. I'll repeat that I like the guy from a personality standpoint, and he gave great interview, but he wasn't what most would classify as a "good NBA coach". As a result, he hasn't had GMs beating down his door to offer him a head coach position. My guess is that his personality is exactly what made him a mediocre coach during his time here -- he was a my way or the highway guy, and that doesn't work consistently in the pros, unfortunately.

Will he prove to be a good coach one day, if given the opportunity (ie, has he learned from his mistakes)? Maybe, and I hope he gets a chance. But that doesn't change history. He wasn't good at player motivation or, more importantly, on-court strategy while he was here.

You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree with you - and again I'm not really a Mitchell fan. There is a lot of opinions and gray areas you seem to believe as fact - which again you are entitled to.

Mitchell was 8-9 when fired - coming off 2 playoff appearances - and the team went 25-40 the rest of the way. If he was bad, JT was awful if you are going on record.

Mitchell is also an assistant with NJ last year - and the last two seasons he has been paid by the Raps after his firing.

Back to my original point regarding Casey. Because Mitchell has been passed over, that makes him a bad coach? Is Dwayne Casey a bad coach because he never got another shot after Minnesota? What about Tom Thibodeau? (he was an assistant for over 20 years before his FIRST head coaching opportunity)

There are only 30 NBA head coaching positions in the world. It is the top coaching candidates (or well connected people) who even get an opportunity to even interview for such a position - let alone get hired.

[Eurobasket]

Phil Jackson was/is a great coach. Sam Mitchell isn't in his league. But he's not a BAD coach. I consider a bad coach someone whose teams underperform, in relation to their talent. Mitchell never had much talent around him. I don't think he's a good coach, but a decent one. Someone who as little to no impact (positive or negative) on the team's win total.

As for Bargnani, you can teach someone defensive skills, but you can't teach them good defensive instincts, which Bargnani has never, ever had. And by the time you reach the NBA, you need to have some. Bargnani had good SCORING potential, but he had little to no potential in other areas.

We both agree that Mitchell was not a very good coach, and we are entitled to have some differences in our opinions, otherwise there will be no discussion if we all think the same.

Bargnani is a huge disappointment, so many years wasted trying to make him a franchise player which he obviously is not. Look at the performance of Italy on this Euro, lost every single game except the one with the worst team on the championship, which is disgraceful for a country like Italy. And the worst for the Raptors is that it's not over yet, it will continue for several more years, mediocre basketball and watching Matt, Leo and Jack trying hard to paint a rosy picture thinking that we are imbeciles who know nothing about the game.

He doesn't have defensive instincts, that's true, but if he was at least putting an effort to stay in front of his man, if you're 7 ft tall and raise your arms, you'll make the other guy shoot some difficult shots over you. Championships are won with hard work, a lot of effort and sacrifice, I can't see a lot of guys on the Raptors roster who have those qualities, unfortunately.

[Eurobasket]

I didn't mean that as a slight toward Bo.
I'm fully aware of what he brings to the table.
Barea is known to be quite fearless while driving to the basket amongst the big boys.
He is also known to provide to the emotional and spiritual spark, you speak of as well.

But again, what you fail to acknowledge is that players, and especially Point Guards in the NBA are MUCH longer, taller, bigger, stronger, than players in Europe. I'm aware thats a very large generalization, but for the most part, its true.

Desire to win will only get you so far. There was a reason he went undrafted.
At 6'-0", 180 lbs, he's just too small.
Even Ty Lawson has 15lbs on him and he's a couple inches shorter.

Yes, the point guards in NBA are longer, taller, stronger... But the intensity of the games in Europe is on much higher level, you have to actually be in the arena to feel that, it's not the same on TV. Games are very physical. Fans are actually living for the team, winning or losing brings a lot of emotions, unlike the NBA where it's just another game. Players feel this energy too, they are always pumped up, especially for the big games. Fans travel across countries, thousands of kilometers to support their team, on their own expense, they don't miss the third quarter eating pizza or drinking beer in the hallways.

You go to the arena for one thing only: to watch the game, every single second of it. You eat and drink after the game is over. When you play away from home it's very difficult to win a game because of the enormous pressure from the fans. The referees also feel that, so they lean towards the home team. Bo experienced all that and it made him much better player than he ever was. He has improved more than any other player in his class. He can play on any NBA team and have an impact, of course not like Kobe or Wade, but a very positive one for sure.

I'm not talking only about desire to win, he actually DOES everything he can to win the games. It's a miracle that he didn't get injured, so many times he put his body on the line for the team. He is the MVP on this Euro so far, he took the Macedonian team on his back and beat some really good teams, including two-time champions Greece and Olympic silver medalists Croatia. And he plays for a team that never made it beyond the first round, with only a couple of average players around him, he's always the go-to guy and under heaviest pressure. I hope there's some strength left in his legs. Now they have a chance to go to the quarter-finals which would be a sensation if it happens, and I wouldn't be surprised if they raise a monument in Macedonia for him. If we only had a couple of players with his heart in Toronto...

[irgigi]

Valanciunas has a good game live right now. Serbia @ Lithuania. Halftime now. JV 10 min, 10pts, 3rebs.
Live streams as always at:
http://www.lshunter.tv/basketball-li...ing-video.html
or
http://www.sportlemon.tv/

[Tim W.]

I didn't see the whole game, but Valanciunas looked to have a very good game, coming up big when it counted. The boy just seems to LOVE to compete. Anyone have a link for the box score?

[Kuh]

I didn't see the whole game, but Valanciunas looked to have a very good game, coming up big when it counted. The boy just seems to LOVE to compete. Anyone have a link for the box score?

All the games, box scores, stories can be found on www.fibaeurope.com.

Gotta love that 8/9 shooting by JV!

[irgigi]

try This link for boxscore
if it will stop working, just browse till you find box score. I found myself to find it hard sometimes but it's always somewhere there it seems

As for JV, while not even looking to stats, he did everything his team expected from him to win.
don't expect good stats from anyone in LT team, they seems to be all even balanced Check their stats link. their best rebounder didn't even play today...